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The case for becoming a manager

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51–59 of 59 posts

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#51
The reason I had for being a manager was to be able to get the work done without the idiocy I'd had to deal with earlier in my career.

Up to a point this worked, but when I didn't program I started to become part of the problem and when I did, I didn't have time for the management.

The politics are horrendous and just to survive you try to bend just enough with the prevailing wind not to get into trouble but then you find you're becoming "the man" to your team. If you're too nice they start thinking "what does he even do?" - well all the boring stuff that lets them off the hook so they can focus.

Then you realise that problems with arseholes that used to come from above and from the side can now come from below as well and, unless you're in some capitalist fantasyland, there are only slow painful and expensive solutions which damage you.

You also get to see that you're not allowed to do the things that would let your team achieve goals but you are definitely going to be blamed for all the ridiculous ideas your superiors try to force on you when they finally escape through promotion and you're left trying to explain why X and Y were done.

So in general I feel burned out about people after my experience. I completed projects on time in the face of lots of problems which I managed to navigate around effectively but the experience was horrible because people are often horrible and horribleness wasn't some thing you could admire - like "oh they're tough but effective." It was more like stupidity all the way through but made up for by arse kissing.

In every place there's stupidity all over the place. At one place people know all about how to use source control as if that was too unimportant to mention but have no testing system for all their macro-services so everything's always breaking .... but of course we can't delay those new features just because of the latest incident can we? At another I'm getting lectured on how to do everything by the git expert of 3 months while I convert their incredible SCCS system. At another, man,we have 100 commandline arguments and our customers just better learn them all to get an optimal result.

All of them screw up agile and bitch about why it isn't doing what they thought it would.

The new thing is checking up on your AI usage to make sure you're using it enough. Lets not fix our development and testing process ... no ... lets hope AI will magic our quality problems away!

Being a manager doesn't really let you fix this stuff.

Firstly you have to be able to articulate why things are going wrong and that's bloody hard. Then you hit the problem that if you have amazing insight that lets you see what to do, nobody else at that company has it and they're all off following their own ideas no matter how little they might have worked in the past.

Whatever is wrong is that way because the sort of social situation that came into existence formed it that way. You're not battling a lack of insight but something else - perhaps a set of incentives. Whatever it is, it's like trying to stop a hurricane by holding up your hands.

If you're too low the higher management force you to be sht and if you're higher I imagine that the pressures of the business force you down the road of being sht anyhow.

Accountants want software to depreciate - so it has to be "finished." So they hate you going back to fix things that are supposed to be "finished" and want you to work on new things.

..........ok, end of stream of consciousness. :-) I just feel a bit battered by it at the moment. Nothing in life is easy.

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#52
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

see how the language lead directly to you considering all contributions to belong to the manager? yea newspeak is bad for the brain!

Your manager is on the hook for things you do. I can’t explain it more plainly

regardless of who is on the hook for what, ones contributions are their own. a manager makes contributions by performing actions just like anybody else. this label for implying that a managers contributions includes that of their reports is bogus - if a manager does absolutely nothing at all we should consider the contributions of their reports? actual technical jargon adds precision to language "IC" takes it away, it's nothing more than corporate newspeak ala 1984

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#54

It's a sweet role. You get 2x the pay, and the only thing you have to do is act like a decent human, and select your team with nm precision, and you can just coast along and collect the pay check. The only problem is the manager level above you. If you're the guy who likes plain speaking and speaking the truth, being a manager is not for you. If you have sycophantic tendencies, you'll last a long time.

Haha, if only.

Every time I've been a manager I work longer hours than the people I manage doing things they would hate to do, so they can do the things they are good at.

I do joke with my team though that my role involves drinking champagne in limousines. They get the joke.

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#55

It's a sweet role. You get 2x the pay, and the only thing you have to do is act like a decent human, and select your team with nm precision, and you can just coast along and collect the pay check. The only problem is the manager level above you. If you're the guy who likes plain speaking and speaking the truth, being a manager is not for you. If you have sycophantic tendencies, you'll last a long time.

Haha, if only. Every time I've been a manager I work longer hours than the people I manage doing things they would hate to do, so they can do the things they are good at. I do joke with my team though that my role involves drinking champagne in limousines. They get the joke.

Sounds like you need to level up your mgmt skills, or choose your team better. It is also important, as a manager, to set the norm that 80 hour weeks are not acceptable and only pulled by inefficient people and companies who cannot plan.

If anyone in my team consistently worked more than 40 hours per week, inluding myself, that is a sign that something is wrong and must be fixed.

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha, if only. Every time I've been a manager I work longer hours than the people I manage doing things they would hate to do, so they can do the things they are good at. I do joke with my team though that my role involves drinking champagne in limousines. They get the joke.

Sounds like you need to level up your mgmt skills, or choose your team better. It is also important, as a manager, to set the norm that 80 hour weeks are not acceptable and only pulled by inefficient people and companies who cannot plan. If anyone in my team consistently worked more than 40 hours per week, inluding myself, that is a sign that something is wrong and must be fixed.

My team is fine, 40 hours is the norm. I do work longer hours than that, but not much more unless there's a huge crunch on, which happens maybe once a year.

You make a lot of assumptions about my team, my management skills and the hours we all work. It comes across as patronising; maybe you should level up your soft skills.

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#57
post #36

If you ignore the titles and just start taking care of things, a whole world opens up that is invisible to most. Doing things even when you aren't sure if they are your responsibility is precisely what makes you a responsible person. Encouraging everyone around you to do trivial things like bringing the shopping cart back is actually a big deal. And the most effective way to do this is to just do it. Park as far as y…

> Park as far as you possibly can from the store and walk that thing for a solid 3 minutes both ways. Find one with a really noisy wheel. Make a whole production out of it. Leading by example is unbelievably effective if you lean into it just a little bit.

I might be a little base, how does parking as far from the store show 'leadership'?

What's complaining about a noise wheel going to accomplish other than being like a Karen? (noisy wheel might be non important to the day to day and literally just noise.)

I think I'm missing context as I can't get the grocery store scenario from another comment out of my head.

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#58
post #36

If you ignore the titles and just start taking care of things, a whole world opens up that is invisible to most. Doing things even when you aren't sure if they are your responsibility is precisely what makes you a responsible person. Encouraging everyone around you to do trivial things like bringing the shopping cart back is actually a big deal. And the most effective way to do this is to just do it. Park as far as y…

Also I do understand the whole, if you lead you will be respected bit; but counter act that with mega corps that will let your wage stagnate and being a leader might be detrimental to your work/life balance given how much is taken for what is given. (tldr: Unfair wages kill motivation and leadership)

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you need to level up your mgmt skills, or choose your team better. It is also important, as a manager, to set the norm that 80 hour weeks are not acceptable and only pulled by inefficient people and companies who cannot plan. If anyone in my team consistently worked more than 40 hours per week, inluding myself, that is a sign that something is wrong and must be fixed.

My team is fine, 40 hours is the norm. I do work longer hours than that, but not much more unless there's a huge crunch on, which happens maybe once a year. You make a lot of assumptions about my team, my management skills and the hours we all work. It comes across as patronising; maybe you should level up your soft skills.

Nah, I'm good thank you. You do sound like the typical corporate manager though! ;)
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