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Windows 11's Start menu was built using React – now switching to native WinUI

windowscentral.com

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Re: Windows 11's Start menu was built using React – now switching to native WinUI

#51

Post by solid_fuel »

drysart wrote: post #23
solid_fuel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I'm wondering. How dysfunctional is microsoft that they shipped a react-based start menu? It reads like satire, "Windows 11 is so bad that even microsoft doesn't use native controls".

It's not React. It's React Native. React Native and React are about as similar as JavaScript and Java. React Native is a way of orchestrating a UI comprised of native controls.

ok, granted, but microsoft already builds a first party way to orchestrate a UI comprised of native controls. Why do they invest so much effort into WinUI and C# if they're just going to use a 3rd party solution? Presumably the windows 11 start menu does not need to run on macOS or Linux.

Re: Windows 11's Start menu was built using React – now switching to native WinUI

#52

Post by greggsy »

ksec wrote: post #47

This is interesting timing. Macbook Neo announced. It has been known a low cost MacBook will come, but I dont think anyone realistically think it was really going to be $599. And even $499 for Education. Now that it is real, how many new macOS user will Apple gain? Cooperate, Education and Business Sector have longed wanted an "affordable" Mac. There are plenty of organisations that are currently paying $499 or $599…

Timing isn’t an accident. Within weeks of the M1 stealing headlines, the premature W11 released to great fanfare.

This mea culpa is very refreshing though, along with the admission that they went overboard with CoPilot.

Re: Windows 11's Start menu was built using React – now switching to native WinUI

#53

Post by zeroc8 »

greggsy wrote: post #52
ksec wrote: post #47

This is interesting timing. Macbook Neo announced. It has been known a low cost MacBook will come, but I dont think anyone realistically think it was really going to be $599. And even $499 for Education. Now that it is real, how many new macOS user will Apple gain? Cooperate, Education and Business Sector have longed wanted an "affordable" Mac. There are plenty of organisations that are currently paying $499 or $599…

Timing isn’t an accident. Within weeks of the M1 stealing headlines, the premature W11 released to great fanfare. This mea culpa is very refreshing though, along with the admission that they went overboard with CoPilot.

That has been Microsoft's gameplan for years. While Apple delivers, Microsoft promises it will deliver soon. And then it never happens.

Re: Windows 11's Start menu was built using React – now switching to native WinUI

#54

Post by pjmlp »

userbinator wrote: post #50
sunaookami wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has not been built with React, the article is false and it's a typical statement meant to make you outraged. The "recommended" section in the start menu was built using React Native and renders into XAML, so as natve as it can get. WinUI changes nothing about this. It's very tiresome having to constantly debunk this because "journalists" are chasing cheap clicks instead of doing their job.

XAML I would not consider native; it's an XML-infested .NET-originated monstrosity. Win32 is native.

Still way better than dealing with div soup turned into UI via magic CSS incantations.

And the CSS grid system was based on XAML grid.

Re: Windows 11's Start menu was built using React – now switching to native WinUI

#55

Post by pjmlp »

sunaookami wrote: post #46
steviey19 wrote: post #2

Buried in this announcement about Windows 11 improvements is a fascinating admission: the Windows 11 Start menu has been built using React this entire time. Microsoft is now migrating it to their native WinUI3 framework to improve performance and reduce interaction latency. This explains a lot about why the Start menu has felt sluggish compared to Windows 10. The React → WinUI migration is the most technically intere…

It has not been built with React, the article is false and it's a typical statement meant to make you outraged. The "recommended" section in the start menu was built using React Native and renders into XAML, so as natve as it can get. WinUI changes nothing about this. It's very tiresome having to constantly debunk this because "journalists" are chasing cheap clicks instead of doing their job.

Mostly because the C++/WinRT tooling is non existent, after killing the C++/CX Visual Studio XAML integration, C++ Builder like, thus most C++ teams reach out to React Native instead, as Microsoft's QML.

Same happened to the XBox dashboard.

Re: Windows 11's Start menu was built using React – now switching to native WinUI

#56

Post by pjmlp »

zeroc8 wrote: post #53
greggsy wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Timing isn’t an accident. Within weeks of the M1 stealing headlines, the premature W11 released to great fanfare. This mea culpa is very refreshing though, along with the admission that they went overboard with CoPilot.

That has been Microsoft's gameplan for years. While Apple delivers, Microsoft promises it will deliver soon. And then it never happens.

How is Apple AI delivery going?

Especially everything that was shown at WWDC 2024?

Re: Windows 11's Start menu was built using React – now switching to native WinUI

#57

Post by pjmlp »

idiotsecant wrote: post #33
userbinator wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MS also made one of the most hated IM and audiovisual meeting applications with web tech, replacing a previously (not great but much better) native one: Teams.

Teams was pretty bad when it released, but it's decent now I think.

Still no threading support.

Re: Windows 11's Start menu was built using React – now switching to native WinUI

#58

Post by pjmlp »

solid_fuel wrote: post #51
drysart wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not React. It's React Native. React Native and React are about as similar as JavaScript and Java. React Native is a way of orchestrating a UI comprised of native controls.

ok, granted, but microsoft already builds a first party way to orchestrate a UI comprised of native controls. Why do they invest so much effort into WinUI and C# if they're just going to use a 3rd party solution? Presumably the windows 11 start menu does not need to run on macOS or Linux.

Because it uses C++, and C++/WinRT tooling for UI development isn't there.

The team that killed C++/CX, said it isn't their problem that there aren't Visual Studio integrations like C++/CX, and eventually left C++/WinRT in maintenance and nowadays is responsible for windows-rs repo. Better not expect too much from that repo as well.

Welcome to Microsoft politics.

Re: Windows 11's Start menu was built using React – now switching to native WinUI

#59

Post by sunaookami »

zuhsetaqi wrote: post #49
sunaookami wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has not been built with React, the article is false and it's a typical statement meant to make you outraged. The "recommended" section in the start menu was built using React Native and renders into XAML, so as natve as it can get. WinUI changes nothing about this. It's very tiresome having to constantly debunk this because "journalists" are chasing cheap clicks instead of doing their job.

Do you have a source for that?

Here from a React conference for example: https://x.com/zeko369/status/1791141890106290670 or do a search for more: https://www.google.com/search?q=react+native+start+menu+reco...

Re: Windows 11's Start menu was built using React – now switching to native WinUI

#60

Post by myvoiceismypass »

mft_ wrote: post #40
flohofwoe wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still baffling, since the core idea of React only makes sense as a workaround for limitations of the browser DOM. Wrapping much more flexible 'native' widget frameworks with a React layer is pure cargo culting (same with SwiftUI).

It tried to solve cross-platform development. That’s a legitimate issue. In retrospect, calling it React probably caused more problems than it brought benefits, and makes little sense - like Java vs JavaScript.

But React Native looks like plain React. Syntax the same in both cases. Java and Javascript are wholly different languages.
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