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A Journey Through Infertility

pudding.cool

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Re: A Journey Through Infertility

#51
post #49
post #48

There's many reasons why this piece wasn't made for me, so I don't want to begrudge anyone, but I wonder how much we can do to alieve this as a society by normalizing childlessness. I never wanted to have kids, but if I did, I doubt I would've been willing to endure what the author did for it. You can (and honestly I think most people should) live a long and fulfilling life without having kids. Myself and so many of…

Another quick thought - so long as we live in a world where children in need of adoption exist, I hope we can make adopting more normal too. If you're in a position to become a parent, why on Earth would adoption not be the default? It seems much better for everyone involved. The fixation on breeding and having children whose genetics perfectly match your own is strange and mildly alarming to me.

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Re: A Journey Through Infertility

#52
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re correct. All this talk about when people choose to have kids over-intellectualizes that what is a biological function. My wife and I have three kids. I’m not sure you can say any of them resulted from a rigorous analysis. We had our first in law school as a happy surprise. We theoretically planned our second and third, a six year gap after the first. But that the timing coincided with moving from an apartment…

"Less able to persuade women into doing so" is crazy. IMO the single biggest factor preventing kids right now in the US and other developed countries is the effects of COVID on the global economy along with the most significant period of global economic uncertainty in at least the 21st century. The amount of energy put into fertility is a waste, and by just enabling everyone to afford children the population problem…

I'm not convinced the economic argument is correct. Anecdotally, two is by far the most common number of kids among other parents I know. They're all pretty well off so I don't think that's the reason. It's definitely not COVID as their kids are some years too old for that. Nor do I think it's age or infertility, as they had plenty of time and there's no wistful talk about wishing they could have another one. As far as I can tell, they stopped at 2 because they wanted to.

Re: A Journey Through Infertility

#54
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might very well be placebo but it helped me deeply and I can see why women that want to give it their all would try it (and that's why I don't begrudge her counting those jabs). If it helps anyone - my first cycle was without acupuncture and I barely got 4 eggs out of it. I underwent acupuncture for 3 months before my second cycle and that got me 12 eggs. When each cycle costs about 30k USD, a lot of women with lo…

Yeah, including weird teas, minerals, oils etc etc. Source: my wife, every YouTube video was with something new which "totally" change your odds. Pinky promise. God, how I hate those people.

The "try anything to help" argument drives me batty. How do you know acupuncture doesn't hurt your odds? For every quack treatment somebody is trying to sell you, we could come up with a million other quack treatments (rub cat fur in your eyes twice daily to improve ovulation) that you're not trying. Random unproven nonsense is as likely to hurt as it is to help. Actually, given that it's so much easier to disrupt systems than it is to improve them, random unproven nonsense is far more likely to hurt than it is to help.

Re: A Journey Through Infertility

#55
post #34

I get that in the West we are generally conceiving at a later stage in life than before, and that this does not improve odds of conception. However, with fertility, just as with so many things, we are individualising the problem. Here too the focus is on age. Just get kids when you're younger! What's the big deal. Let's set aside that there are deeper sociological reasons on why young people start with kids later in…

You’re correct. All this talk about when people choose to have kids over-intellectualizes that what is a biological function. My wife and I have three kids. I’m not sure you can say any of them resulted from a rigorous analysis. We had our first in law school as a happy surprise. We theoretically planned our second and third, a six year gap after the first. But that the timing coincided with moving from an apartment…

I don't have kids, but I think this might be a generational schism where the default view of older generations is that having kids "is just what you do" without much more thought and younger generations see them as a burden. Obviously, generations of people are not a monolith but I think that holds true generally. You might be right that testerone levels have resulted in a declining birth rate, but you also have to consider methods of birth control that are available to women and how atomized society is at the moment (both sexes can do just fine independently)

There are a lot of variables that are hard to control for.

Re: A Journey Through Infertility

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like MC Escher, Monument Valley isn’t an original idea.

How far back do you want to take this? Like why aren't they giving credit to the person who invented the pen? C'mon, this is a much more direct copy of Monument Valley than Escher.

Monument Valley is a copy of Escher so I’m not sure your point. Or maybe it’s an order thing? Then Monument Valley is a copy of the Escher scenes from the movie Labyrinth or maybe it’s a copy of a-ha’s Take me on music video?

Re: A Journey Through Infertility

#57
I've commented on this before, I do agree with some of the other sentiments that we are individualizing the problem. It's up-to each person (or couple) to navigate it themselves. For example, in Canada, the federal government announced a tax credit (up to 25%) for spending related to fertility treatments. For my partner and I, it took a professional accountant (with related costs) to navigate that system.

IVF and IUI (and now, IVM) treatment cycles are largely handled by private clinics that receive funding from provincial governments and, by extension, federal. Even with first-class health insurance, from employers, and government grants (paid to the doctors) there are out-of-pocket costs (ex., vitamins, supplements, missed work time, medications, genetic testing, sperm washing...). In our case, after multiple years, our health insurance coverage has dried-up (~30,000 CAD) and our lifetime grant eligibility for IVF (one treatment cycle) has finished. We could have easily exhausted our financial resources, (ex., investments, pensions, re-mortgage, lines-of-credit...), but with less chance to conceive daily, it's a race of diminishing biology. The opportunity to conceive a healthy child has been erased by time.

This added to the emotional and social costs of not being able to have a child. In my field, I find colleagues to be judgmental of working adults without children. As if having a child of your own gives you this magical insight into working with children that childless adults do not posses. I've started answered the question: "Do you have kids?" by saying, "Not by my own choice." This hopefully communicates that I've tried, but at a certain point a decision had to be made about whether to continue.

My spouse has taken all of the physical toll of the treatments. The male's job is to provide a sample, see their doctor, and sign the paperwork. By contrast, my wife has had early morning or lunchtime appointments (in an effort to not miss work) 3-4 times per week during certain monitoring or pre-proceedure periods. She has been subjected to blood testing, hormone therapy, daily injections, invasive ultrasounds, bruising, repeated pharmacy trips. All this in addition to phone-calls to remind staff at our clinic what the doctor recommended or asking the clinic reception for confirmation of a certain prescription or guideline. Of course, she undertook all of these responsibilities while internalizing the trauma of our familial reality.

My partner is strong, resilient, and beautiful. I owe her more grace and more appreciation than I can ever give.

My daily reminder to myself is to remember that my partner are I are already a family. Our commitment to one another has not changed. Although our lives may look differently then we may have imagined, it will not be any less meaningful.

Re: A Journey Through Infertility

#58

On a related note, this is becoming a more common issue worldwide. Almost every country, even developing ones, are experiencing below replenishment birthrates. Only a few countries are spared in Central Africa, though not sure how long that will last. https://www.imf.org/en/publications/fandd/issues/series/anal... https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v66n4/v66n4p37.html https://www.newsweek.com/americas-population-tim…

You don't mention the outlier - Israel stands out in the OECD fertility rate race - 2.89 in 2023 (if I'm reading https://www.oecd.org/en/data/indicators/fertility-rates.html correctly) while the next highest is France at 1.91.

A click-bait article I read mentioned that Israel's culture is more child-rearing friendly than others, like the United States, where kid-friendly gathering places are not encouraged.

the article at https://www.taubcenter.org.il/en/research/why-are-there-so-m... mentions several possible reasons for the increased fertility, at least compared to OECD countries - Israel's birth rate is similar to its neighbours, Egypt and Syria, according to the article.

Re: A Journey Through Infertility

#59
post #21

Maybe countries could tackle such problems twofold: - first, implement a nationwide social freezing program, where women in their 20s are offered to freeze their eggs at a young age for free. Such a large-scale program would probably also improve the tech and might make egg collection less intrusive. - combined with this program, let the women who freeze their eggs opt-in into an egg donation program, where some of t…

They might also look to Israel to see what they're doing that's working so much better than other OECD countries - see my other comment in this post.

But Israel's advantage seems to be partly cultural and I don't see any time-limited elected government willing to expend that much effort to change their nation's culture.

Re: A Journey Through Infertility

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Less able to persuade women into doing so" is crazy. IMO the single biggest factor preventing kids right now in the US and other developed countries is the effects of COVID on the global economy along with the most significant period of global economic uncertainty in at least the 21st century. The amount of energy put into fertility is a waste, and by just enabling everyone to afford children the population problem…

I'm not convinced the economic argument is correct. Anecdotally, two is by far the most common number of kids among other parents I know. They're all pretty well off so I don't think that's the reason. It's definitely not COVID as their kids are some years too old for that. Nor do I think it's age or infertility, as they had plenty of time and there's no wistful talk about wishing they could have another one. As far…

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