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Monkey Island for Commodore 64 Ground Up

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Re: Monkey Island for Commodore 64 Ground Up

#51

Post by vidarh »

rob74 wrote: post #41
vintermann wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The C64 palette is completely different from the EGA palette. C64: https://lospec.com/palette-list/commodore64 Default EGA palette (which Afaik monkey island used): https://lospec.com/palette-list/color-graphics-adapter You see that the C64 palette has a much more muted, pastel look and does not map one to one to the CGA/default EGA palette. C64 has a lot less vivid colors, but it also has much better luminosity ramp…

I think the C64 palette you linked has been "tweaked" by the artist who uploaded it, this is probably closer to the original: https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Color But your point is still valid: while IBM PCs and other machines of the time had a propensity for "pure" colors (cyan, magenta etc. - so 100% for one or two of the basic colors and 0 for the others), the C64 designers opted for more muted colors.

> this is probably closer to the original: https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Color

Which one? The listed palette looks nothing like the screenshot on the same page.

Notably, there's no way that light blue for example (which is the default font and border), nor the dark blue (which is the default background).

The screenshot is how I remember the C64, and consistent with other screenshots and photos. The listed hex codes are far off.

The one posted by the person you responded to is a bit muted, but the relative colors seems closer to what I'd expect.

Re: Monkey Island for Commodore 64 Ground Up

#52

Post by vidarh »

p0w3n3d wrote: post #5

I wonder how do they want to overcome the memory limit? Or will it be using cartridge extensively?

One floppy holds 176KB per side. One full screen of bitmap graphics is 8KB+1KB color, but the game fills only about 2/3 of the screen, so lets say 6KB w/o any compression.

I don't think it's a problem. The game is static enough I think it'd even be viable to hide most loading time even from a real floppy w/behind animation (e.g. slow down door opening and a fade long enough for a decent fast loader to load 6KB)

Re: Monkey Island for Commodore 64 Ground Up

#53

Post by whywhywhywhy »

Razengan wrote: post #39

God, I wish a new modern game would capture the essence of Monkey Island, which for me was the ISLANDS themselves. I didn't care much about the actual main story, Ron Gilbert was never serious about the story anyway (and he coldly murdered it in the long-awaited "official" sequel, Return) But I loved how each island was like a unique mini world onto itself, and as a kid it really struck me how it was always night on…

When I was a little kid Monkey Island honestly felt magical, even though the gameplay is essentially a linear puzzle it really did feel like you were walking around a little living world and just how cinematic and seamless the opening titles are to the first scene too just didn't feel like any other videogame, more like a little movie world.

But yeah the best thing about it was always the atmosphere and world, less so the writing.

Re: Monkey Island for Commodore 64 Ground Up

#54

Post by kleiba »

vidarh wrote: post #51
rob74 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the C64 palette you linked has been "tweaked" by the artist who uploaded it, this is probably closer to the original: https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Color But your point is still valid: while IBM PCs and other machines of the time had a propensity for "pure" colors (cyan, magenta etc. - so 100% for one or two of the basic colors and 0 for the others), the C64 designers opted for more muted colors.

> this is probably closer to the original: https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Color Which one? The listed palette looks nothing like the screenshot on the same page. Notably, there's no way that light blue for example (which is the default font and border), nor the dark blue (which is the default background). The screenshot is how I remember the C64, and consistent with other screenshots and photos. The listed hex codes a…

This is the link you're looking for: https://www.colodore.com/

If you're interested in how this palette (editor) was derived, read this: https://www.pepto.de/projects/colorvic/.

The discussion on the above site is an update of the original post by the same author: https://www.pepto.de/projects/colorvic/2001/

Re: Monkey Island for Commodore 64 Ground Up

#55

Post by vidarh »

kleiba wrote: post #54
vidarh wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this is probably closer to the original: https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Color Which one? The listed palette looks nothing like the screenshot on the same page. Notably, there's no way that light blue for example (which is the default font and border), nor the dark blue (which is the default background). The screenshot is how I remember the C64, and consistent with other screenshots and photos. The listed hex codes a…

This is the link you're looking for: https://www.colodore.com/ If you're interested in how this palette (editor) was derived, read this: https://www.pepto.de/projects/colorvic/ . The discussion on the above site is an update of the original post by the same author: https://www.pepto.de/projects/colorvic/2001/

On my screen that doesn't match videos of actual C64's on actual CRT's. (It also doesn't match my memory of them, but that's a whole lot less reliable)

Re: Monkey Island for Commodore 64 Ground Up

#56

Post by kleiba »

vidarh wrote: post #55
kleiba wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the link you're looking for: https://www.colodore.com/ If you're interested in how this palette (editor) was derived, read this: https://www.pepto.de/projects/colorvic/ . The discussion on the above site is an update of the original post by the same author: https://www.pepto.de/projects/colorvic/2001/

On my screen that doesn't match videos of actual C64's on actual CRT's. (It also doesn't match my memory of them, but that's a whole lot less reliable)

I would actually find it surprising if it did match videos of actual C64s on actual CRTs, because of the many conversion layers.

Re: Monkey Island for Commodore 64 Ground Up

#57

Post by vidarh »

kleiba wrote: post #56
vidarh wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On my screen that doesn't match videos of actual C64's on actual CRT's. (It also doesn't match my memory of them, but that's a whole lot less reliable)

I would actually find it surprising if it did match videos of actual C64s on actual CRTs, because of the many conversion layers.

Videos of actual C64's on actual CRT's are pretty consistent other than brightness, though, so if it doesn't at least somewhat match those, the model is broken.

Re: Monkey Island for Commodore 64 Ground Up

#58

Post by faragon »

haspok wrote: post #27
qmr wrote: post #9

Ambitious. I wonder how many floppies it will be.

The EGA version was 4 1.44MB disks for MS-DOS, IIRC. Let's say 5MB. That's about 30 disk sides or 15 disks in DD disks. Not that bad actually, and perhaps the C64 images are smaller or more compressible than the EGA ones... So this should be some kind of an upper limit.

IIRC, the original CGA/EGA version was: 8x 360KB 5.25" disks, or 4x 720KB 3.5" disks.

Re: Monkey Island for Commodore 64 Ground Up

#59

Post by the_af »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #50
the_af wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, they really messed up Loom in the EGA to VGA conversion. The EGA graphics were a work of art, very moody. It's interesting how the VGA version manages to be way less nuanced, plus it destroys that beautiful "blue" look of the night scenes.

It's bad, but what they did to Loom was way way worse, they obliterated the style, chiaroscuro and nuance.

I indeed meant Loom!

Re: Monkey Island for Commodore 64 Ground Up

#60

Post by the_af »

Subdivide8452 wrote: post #25
the_af wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, they really messed up Loom in the EGA to VGA conversion. The EGA graphics were a work of art, very moody. It's interesting how the VGA version manages to be way less nuanced, plus it destroys that beautiful "blue" look of the night scenes.

This sounds so snobby. VGA Loom was absolutely stunning. I can understand that you may appreciate EGA more, but "messed up" sounds hyperbolic imo.

I won't go over the details, but if you look at the website mentioned in the other thread from 2021, you'll see I'm not being hyperbolic.

EGA Loom is a work of art. VGA Loom misread the style and completely obliterated it, in its eagerness to deploy that early VGA "pillow shadow" style so typical of games of that era. (I love the term "pillow shadow", so apt now that I've learned it!).

Every nightly blue gone, light sources broken, every shadow gone, ominous deep-black tree shadows converted into gray/brownish things, etc.

To be clear, I think this is less a limitation of VGA and more a case of the conversion done lazily and/or by an inferior artist.

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