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The return-to-the-office trend backfires

thehill.com

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Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#51

Post by ecshafer »

asdff wrote: post #25
imcrs wrote: post #13

RTO is about controlling labor, nothing else. Everything else is a smoke screen. Ask yourself the following questions and you'll understand what happened: - why did RTO happen seemingly right after salaries jumped and labor became scarce? - why did RTO happen virtually in lockstep across all of white collar employment? - why did RTO happen despite no evidence that productivity had anything to do with it? (and in fact…

When you also consider the nation as you know, a nation, and not a rat race of individual interest, the best thing the government could do is encourage working from home. Break the hell up these "hubs" of white collar industry and let's disperse this work and compensation across the country. I'm betting we would see quite a lot more growth anyhow if these jobs were distributed across the country vs just concentrated…

WFH aside. Any company that hits a certain size, starts to be broken up into multiple offices, buildings, floors, etc. and becomes de-facto remote. Meetings all become phone calls. and the team itself is mostly co-located. I am always a big confused at that point, why have a 20k person campus and 2 10k person campuses. Why not have 40 1k campuses? They are all effectively remote anyways.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#52

Post by heraldgeezer »

imcrs wrote: post #13

RTO is about controlling labor, nothing else. Everything else is a smoke screen. Ask yourself the following questions and you'll understand what happened: - why did RTO happen seemingly right after salaries jumped and labor became scarce? - why did RTO happen virtually in lockstep across all of white collar employment? - why did RTO happen despite no evidence that productivity had anything to do with it? (and in fact…

What if I actually like the office?

It is a nice building in a nice area.

I have a 40min walk to it or 10min bus ride.

I like my colleagues. Sometimes you need to meet and solve problems face to face, and not have it be planned.

I like dressing up a bit, not a full suit but nice pleated pants and OCBD/sweater/blazer.

I have a shift schedule, sometimes I am the only one in the office, that is bliss :)

But my work is 100% in office. But not being shut at home is nice.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#53

Post by heraldgeezer »

What if I actually like the office?

I have a 40min walk to it or 10min bus ride, so no American commute, lol. (Your society is done)

I like my colleagues. Sometimes you want to meet and solve problems face to face, and not have it be planned.

I have a shift schedule, sometimes I am the only one in the office, that is bliss :)

But my work is 100% in office.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#54

Post by [deleted] »

lm28469 wrote: post #37
pdabbadabba wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak to your sector, but from the perspective in my management role (in law) the explanation is quite simple: managing remote workers is more difficult and less pleasant than managing workers in the office. I actually hate it. And even granting that remote and in-office workers are "productive" in the sense that they bill hours (though not even this seems true in my anecdotal experience), we find that people…

Get better or quit then, I don't give a shit about managers, do your job and let the dozens of people you manage live their fucking lives, we're not here to please you or make your job easier

[deleted]

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#55

Post by thewebguyd »

heraldgeezer wrote: post #52
imcrs wrote: post #13

RTO is about controlling labor, nothing else. Everything else is a smoke screen. Ask yourself the following questions and you'll understand what happened: - why did RTO happen seemingly right after salaries jumped and labor became scarce? - why did RTO happen virtually in lockstep across all of white collar employment? - why did RTO happen despite no evidence that productivity had anything to do with it? (and in fact…

What if I actually like the office? It is a nice building in a nice area. I have a 40min walk to it or 10min bus ride. I like my colleagues. Sometimes you need to meet and solve problems face to face, and not have it be planned. I like dressing up a bit, not a full suit but nice pleated pants and OCBD/sweater/blazer. I have a shift schedule, sometimes I am the only one in the office, that is bliss :) But my work is 1…

For me it's about choice. Forcing either isn't necessarily good, but why not just allow people to choose?

I sometimes go into the office, but maybe only once or twice per month. But I am allowed that choice, I can work from my house, any of the company's locations, a cafe, or anywhere else I feel like it on any given day.

I value the freedom and flexibility. I'd be miserable being told "You must be in the office" and I'd also equally hate to be told "you must work from a desk in your house only"

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#56

Post by dmitrygr »

heraldgeezer wrote: post #52
imcrs wrote: post #13

RTO is about controlling labor, nothing else. Everything else is a smoke screen. Ask yourself the following questions and you'll understand what happened: - why did RTO happen seemingly right after salaries jumped and labor became scarce? - why did RTO happen virtually in lockstep across all of white collar employment? - why did RTO happen despite no evidence that productivity had anything to do with it? (and in fact…

What if I actually like the office? It is a nice building in a nice area. I have a 40min walk to it or 10min bus ride. I like my colleagues. Sometimes you need to meet and solve problems face to face, and not have it be planned. I like dressing up a bit, not a full suit but nice pleated pants and OCBD/sweater/blazer. I have a shift schedule, sometimes I am the only one in the office, that is bliss :) But my work is 1…

> I have a 40min walk to it or 10min bus ride

Sounds like you are taking 80 minutes away from your family every day. I would not be so proud of that. And you'll likely regret it on your deathbed. #1 regret is not enough time with fanmily.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#57

Post by matchbok3 »

asdff wrote: post #46
matchbok3 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think these conspiracy theories about RTO are really unhelpful and actually harmful to the viability of hybrid work arrangements. Please work in a day as a oil rig technician or a nurse. "I should be able to work anywhere and my employer must accommodate me" is an extremely privileged and elitist view of thinking. A few of your notes are actually just wrong as well. Salaries jumped during covid due to over-hiring a…

Do you understand how rig work or nursing is? These are very flexible jobs. There is demand for nursing everywhere. You can be a travel nurse and go find work in HI or CA or Las Vegas right now if you want. Temp agencies that place you so you don't even need to really hunt either. Rig work it is weeks on weeks off sort of deal where you then get off that rig back to, quite literally, anywhere in the world where you l…

I'm not sure I understand the point. The vast, vast majority of jobs simply cannot be done remotely. So I have little patience for the entitlement of people thinking they "deserve" it or yell about conspiracy theories about why it is going away.

There is a reason YC is in person. There is a reason why the top companies are in person.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#58

Post by asdff »

ecshafer wrote: post #51
asdff wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you also consider the nation as you know, a nation, and not a rat race of individual interest, the best thing the government could do is encourage working from home. Break the hell up these "hubs" of white collar industry and let's disperse this work and compensation across the country. I'm betting we would see quite a lot more growth anyhow if these jobs were distributed across the country vs just concentrated…

WFH aside. Any company that hits a certain size, starts to be broken up into multiple offices, buildings, floors, etc. and becomes de-facto remote. Meetings all become phone calls. and the team itself is mostly co-located. I am always a big confused at that point, why have a 20k person campus and 2 10k person campuses. Why not have 40 1k campuses? They are all effectively remote anyways.

On our end COVID also turned every single meeting into a videoconference anyhow, because that is how IT set up the AV inputs for our conference rooms for slideshows. No more direct AV input, ipad in every room now and you start a video conference on it, join with your laptop and share your screen. Most of the time some people had to join in remote anyhow for various reasons. Still, pretty ironic using teleconference software to sit in the same room. 95% the way there, just got to get out of the building lease.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#59

Post by asdff »

matchbok3 wrote: post #57
asdff wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you understand how rig work or nursing is? These are very flexible jobs. There is demand for nursing everywhere. You can be a travel nurse and go find work in HI or CA or Las Vegas right now if you want. Temp agencies that place you so you don't even need to really hunt either. Rig work it is weeks on weeks off sort of deal where you then get off that rig back to, quite literally, anywhere in the world where you l…

I'm not sure I understand the point. The vast, vast majority of jobs simply cannot be done remotely. So I have little patience for the entitlement of people thinking they "deserve" it or yell about conspiracy theories about why it is going away. There is a reason YC is in person. There is a reason why the top companies are in person.

What say you to the fact that there are companies that work remote today and are competitive and doing fine? Anomalous? Or maybe your prior assumptions need adjustment?

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#60

Post by throw-the-towel »

dmitrygr wrote: post #56
heraldgeezer wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I actually like the office? It is a nice building in a nice area. I have a 40min walk to it or 10min bus ride. I like my colleagues. Sometimes you need to meet and solve problems face to face, and not have it be planned. I like dressing up a bit, not a full suit but nice pleated pants and OCBD/sweater/blazer. I have a shift schedule, sometimes I am the only one in the office, that is bliss :) But my work is 1…

> I have a 40min walk to it or 10min bus ride Sounds like you are taking 80 minutes away from your family every day. I would not be so proud of that. And you'll likely regret it on your deathbed. #1 regret is not enough time with fanmily.

True, but not everyone even has a family.
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