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Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

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Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#51

Post by jongjong »

rvz wrote: post #26
mindwok wrote: post #20

British democracy and government is cool. It's not enshrined in some document they got together and wrote down like the US constitution, it's this organic thing that they've stumbled towards over the last ~800 years with small changes like this one gradually evolving them into a modern liberal democracy.

> British democracy and government is cool. Oh sweet summer child. The government there does not care about you and will promise anything to get another 5 years in power despite causing the issues they promised to solve in the first place. You are essentially voting in the same party to be in government and progress there moves in the hundreds of years; hence the riddance of the scam that is unelected hereditary nobl…

No idea why this was down-voted, it's true. It's replacing one hereditary system based on inheritance of titles with another hereditary system based on inheritance of capital.

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#52

Post by hdgvhicv »

jongjong wrote: post #47

This is a dark day for the monarchy... and for democracy in the UK. Remove the only people who actually have a long-term vested non-financial interest in the system and replace them with more revolving-door politicians backed by the big money so that the big money can operate with even less friction than before. Great. Just great. The problem with our current democratic systems with unlimited government fiat money is…

Unlike many progressives I actually think the lords works well as a location for people who are expert in fields other than getting reelected.

But heredity lords, no I don’t get that at all

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#53

Post by scj »

bartread wrote: post #41
mindwok wrote: post #20

British democracy and government is cool. It's not enshrined in some document they got together and wrote down like the US constitution, it's this organic thing that they've stumbled towards over the last ~800 years with small changes like this one gradually evolving them into a modern liberal democracy.

There is something to be said for your written constitution though: having the fundamental principles on which your nation is founded enshrined in that way should, at least in theory, make it a lot easier to settle arguments (though in practice, and particularly recently, that does seem not to be the case). Constitutional wrangling in the UK is always really fraught though because it's all done by precedent and is th…

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms was established in 1982. We're still in the process of figuring out what it means (and as a living document, the interpretation will change over time).

It's messy. But I'd much rather that than need to ask "What would Pierre Trudeau think of this situation?"

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#55

Post by pseudalopex »

jongjong wrote: post #51
rvz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> British democracy and government is cool. Oh sweet summer child. The government there does not care about you and will promise anything to get another 5 years in power despite causing the issues they promised to solve in the first place. You are essentially voting in the same party to be in government and progress there moves in the hundreds of years; hence the riddance of the scam that is unelected hereditary nobl…

No idea why this was down-voted, it's true. It's replacing one hereditary system based on inheritance of titles with another hereditary system based on inheritance of capital.

> No idea why this was down-voted

> Oh sweet summer child.

And Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.[1]

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#57

Post by endoblast » 

  When Wellington thrashed Bonaparte,
  As every child can tell,
  The House of Peers, throughout the war,
  Did nothing in particular,
  And did it very well;
  Yet Britain set the world ablaze
  In good King George's glorious days!
(from Iolanthe by Gilbert and Sullivan)

Gather a group of the most powerful people in the land; give them ermine robes and manifold privileges; require of them nothing other than that they meet regularly to converse and debate in a prestigious and historical chamber. Allow them only the power to veto or delay legislation.

Gilbert and Sullivan were satirising but I think their point stands. It is possible to do nothing and to do it very well. While they're busy doing nothing they're not interfering or messing everything else up, even though they probably could outside the chamber.

The fact that heriditary peers are being ejected means nothing beyond the fact that these nobles have lost their inherent power.

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#58

Post by rvz »

pjc50 wrote: post #35
rvz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> British democracy and government is cool. Oh sweet summer child. The government there does not care about you and will promise anything to get another 5 years in power despite causing the issues they promised to solve in the first place. You are essentially voting in the same party to be in government and progress there moves in the hundreds of years; hence the riddance of the scam that is unelected hereditary nobl…

In fairness, this is not unique to Britain. For America read "4" instead of "5".

Are there unelected hereditary nobles somewhere in the US that is entitled to having a seat in congress and can vote against laws being passed?

Nope. I don't think so, not even the length of the term is the same.

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#59

Post by kimos »

s_dev wrote: post #49
mindwok wrote: post #20

British democracy and government is cool. It's not enshrined in some document they got together and wrote down like the US constitution, it's this organic thing that they've stumbled towards over the last ~800 years with small changes like this one gradually evolving them into a modern liberal democracy.

If cool means interesting then yes, it is cool because it's archaic and different but it's not effective. It's the equivalent of a verbal contract. It's simply not as clear or coherent as a written one. Irish democracy in contrast uses STV voting and a written constitution and is modeled between the best of what the UK, the US and France had to offer when it was drafted and is a very representative democracy with man…

I love this about Ireland because they are such a young republic. And democratic systems are a technology. Something that we understand better over time, and somewhere new can pick and choose from what is best, where it is _extremely_ hard to change existing systems in established countries.

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#60

Post by fmajid »

kbelder wrote: post #21
iberator wrote: post #7

Win for democracy and fair representation of the working class! Being Noble is like saying 'i used to have slaves(even if not, then feudalism was the de'facto slave system too!) and made profits from it' Such people are enemies of humanity and democracy and markets. I hope one day they all just go. King and his small family is fine btw. Cultural reason:)

It's not "I used to have slaves...", it's "My ancestors used to have slaves...". Having a class of nobles is an embarrassment for a country, and they should have been kicked out of parliament a century ago. But don't attribute to the child the sins of the father; that's the same category of error that the concept of hereditary nobility falls into.

Sure, they are parasites descended from thugs as opposed to thugs descended from thugs. But you don't see them renouncing their unearned wealth built on rapine, slavery and colonial exploitation, which is to this day largely exempted from property taxes.
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