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Claude struggles to cope with ChatGPT exodus

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Re: Claude struggles to cope with ChatGPT exodus

#51

Post by causal »

xscott wrote: post #34
causal wrote: post #31

It helps a lot that Claude is just better. Codex isn't BAD, and in some narrow technical ways might even be more capable, but I find Claude to be hands-down the best collaborator of all the AI models and it has never been close.

Can you expand on that. I've been wanting to try Claude for a while, but their payment processing wouldn't take any of my credit cards (they work everywhere else, so it's not the cards). I've heard I can work around this by installing their mobile app or something, but it was extra hurdles, so I didn't try very hard. And I've been absolutely amazed with Codex. I started using that with version ChatGPT 5.3-Codex, and…

Codex is not bad, I think it is still useful. But I find that it takes things far too literally, and is generally less collaborative. It is a bit like working with a robot that makes no effort to understand why a user is asking for something.

Claude, IMO, is much better at empathizing with me as a user: It asks better questions, tries harder to understand WHY I'm trying to do something, and is more likely to tell me if there's a better way.

Both have plenty of flaws. Codex might be better if you want to set it loose on a well-defined problem and let it churn overnight. But if you want a back-and-forth collaboration, I find Claude far better.

Re: Claude struggles to cope with ChatGPT exodus

#52

Post by kakacik »

adrianN wrote: post #27
t0mas88 wrote: post #11

> OpenAI, meanwhile, has been attempting to quell the backlash against its deal with the U.S. government, putting out a blog post claiming that “our tools will not be used to conduct domestic surveillance of U.S. persons,” As a non-US person, that sounds far more concerning than no statement at all. Because if their tools weren't used for surveillance against Europeans they would have said so as a marketing message..…

With n-eyes agreements it’s quite meaningless anyway. Whatever passport you have, somebody spies on you and sells the information to your government.

I wouldn't give them any free pass and just give up, its highly amoral and inhuman behavior. Modern form of racism but based on passport.

You have this one? You are subhuman, treated as such and you have very limited rights on our soil, we can do nasty things to you without any court, defense, or hope for fairness. You have that one? Please welcome back.

Sociopathic behavior. Then don't wonder why most of the world is again starting to hate US with passion. I don't mean countries where you already killed hundreds of thousands of civilians, I mean whole world. There isn't a single country out there currently even OK with US, thats more than 95% of the mankind. Why the fuck do you guys allow this? Its not even current gov, rather long term US tradition going back at least till 9/11.

Re: Claude struggles to cope with ChatGPT exodus

#53

Post by fluidcruft »

causal wrote: post #31

It helps a lot that Claude is just better. Codex isn't BAD, and in some narrow technical ways might even be more capable, but I find Claude to be hands-down the best collaborator of all the AI models and it has never been close.

I've generally thought that but lately I've been finding that the main difference is Claude wants a lot more attention than codex (I only use the cli for either). codex isn't great at guessing what you want, but once you get used to its conversation style it's pretty good at just finishing things quietly and the main thing is context management seems to handle itself very well and I rarely even think about it in codex. To me they're just... different. Claude is a little easier to communicate with.

codex often speaks in very dense technical terms that I'm not familiar with and tends to use acronyms I've not encountered so there's a learning curve. It also often thinks I'm providing feedback when I'm just trying to understand what it just said. But it does give nice explanations once it understands that I'm just confused.

Re: Claude struggles to cope with ChatGPT exodus

#54

Post by mjburgess »

clcaev wrote: post #49
spwa4 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing how bad FANG executives are at even knowing what a normal moral thought would be for average people ... Plus, you know, you'd think they'd ask their cleaner or baker or something. Or hire someone.

Executives are certainly capable of understanding moral/ethical concerns. Around 2005, a Yale Psychology PhD candidate asked me to write a web-based survey instrument with various questions, some on complex but straight forward business questions (the controls) and others with moral/ethical aspects. Senior executives participated and they answered similarly to rank & file, often completing the entire survey much fast…

You would also need to control for the degree to which people had a stake in the outcome (ie., virtue signalling).

Since executives have to make decisions where choosing the moral option may impose an economic (or operational) cost, this requires thinking through the actual choice.

Morality for the "rank and file" is just a signalling issue: there's nothing to think through, the answer they are "supposed to choose" is the one they do so, at no cost to them.

Re: Claude struggles to cope with ChatGPT exodus

#55

Post by AlotOfReading »

112233 wrote: post #45
causal wrote: post #31

It helps a lot that Claude is just better. Codex isn't BAD, and in some narrow technical ways might even be more capable, but I find Claude to be hands-down the best collaborator of all the AI models and it has never been close.

Interesting to hear! I've had completely opposite experience, with Claude having 5 minutes of peerless lucidity, followed by panicking, existential crisis, attempts to sabotage it's own tests and code, psyops targeted at making user doubt their computer, OS, memory... Plus it prompts every 15 seconds, with alternative being YOLO. Meanwhile codex is ... boring. It keeps chugging on, asking for "please proceed" once in…

I wish I could get Claude to stop every 15 seconds. There's a persistent bug in the state machine that causes it to miss esc/stop/ctrl-f and continue spending tokens when there's a long running background task or subagent. There's a lot of wasted tokens when it runs for 10, 15, 20 minutes and I can't stop it from running down the wrong rabbit hole.

Re: Claude struggles to cope with ChatGPT exodus

#56

Post by pinkmuffinere »

cmiles8 wrote: post #44

All this demonstrates how non-sticky all this tech really is. When your product is basically just an API call it’s trivial to just swap you out for someone else. As such it’s unclear what the prize at the end of the present race to the bottom is. We swapped OpenAI out for Claude and it required updating about 15 lines of code. All these guys are just commodity to us. If next week there’s a better supplier of commodit…

Ya, agreed. This makes me think that (long term) the ai race won’t be won on the merits of individual models, but on pricing — I think Google has a some strong advantages here because they know how to provide cheap compute, and they already have a ton of engineers doing similar things, so it’s a marginal cost for them instead of having to hire and maintain whole devoted teams.

Re: Claude struggles to cope with ChatGPT exodus

#57

Post by HotHotLava »

cmiles8 wrote: post #44

All this demonstrates how non-sticky all this tech really is. When your product is basically just an API call it’s trivial to just swap you out for someone else. As such it’s unclear what the prize at the end of the present race to the bottom is. We swapped OpenAI out for Claude and it required updating about 15 lines of code. All these guys are just commodity to us. If next week there’s a better supplier of commodit…

It's an ironic situation; logically what should be the moat are the models, costing hundreds of millions of investment cost to train and operate so it would make sense if we see different provider focusing in different directions.

But right now we have 3-5 top contenders that are so evenly matched that the de-facto sticking point is mostly the harness, ie. the collection of proven plugins/commands/tools/agent features that are tuned to the users personal workflow.

Re: Claude struggles to cope with ChatGPT exodus

#58

Post by seydor »

cmiles8 wrote: post #44

All this demonstrates how non-sticky all this tech really is. When your product is basically just an API call it’s trivial to just swap you out for someone else. As such it’s unclear what the prize at the end of the present race to the bottom is. We swapped OpenAI out for Claude and it required updating about 15 lines of code. All these guys are just commodity to us. If next week there’s a better supplier of commodit…

This is the new web hosting. All the valuations are absurd

Re: Claude struggles to cope with ChatGPT exodus

#59

Post by wonnage »

HotHotLava wrote: post #57
cmiles8 wrote: post #44

All this demonstrates how non-sticky all this tech really is. When your product is basically just an API call it’s trivial to just swap you out for someone else. As such it’s unclear what the prize at the end of the present race to the bottom is. We swapped OpenAI out for Claude and it required updating about 15 lines of code. All these guys are just commodity to us. If next week there’s a better supplier of commodit…

It's an ironic situation; logically what should be the moat are the models, costing hundreds of millions of investment cost to train and operate so it would make sense if we see different provider focusing in different directions. But right now we have 3-5 top contenders that are so evenly matched that the de-facto sticking point is mostly the harness, ie. the collection of proven plugins/commands/tools/agent feature…

Cost is never a good moat.

Re: Claude struggles to cope with ChatGPT exodus

#60

Post by shimman »

adrianN wrote: post #27
t0mas88 wrote: post #11

> OpenAI, meanwhile, has been attempting to quell the backlash against its deal with the U.S. government, putting out a blog post claiming that “our tools will not be used to conduct domestic surveillance of U.S. persons,” As a non-US person, that sounds far more concerning than no statement at all. Because if their tools weren't used for surveillance against Europeans they would have said so as a marketing message..…

With n-eyes agreements it’s quite meaningless anyway. Whatever passport you have, somebody spies on you and sells the information to your government.

It's also meaningless because we know governments get around these "agreements" by buying data from third party companies that bought the data from OpenAI. The only way to stop this is to legislate it out of existence.
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