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Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

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Re: Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

#51

Post by zouhair »

WillAdams wrote: post #29
zouhair wrote: post #26

I stopped reading Sci-Fi, it's just all dystopia and even when it's about a Utopia it's mostly about how it crumbles like with the Terra Ignota Series. We live in a dystopia, we need some utopian ideas, enough of the gloom and doom that ends up being a self-fulfilling prophecy..

The problem is, tales of the land of the happy nice people doesn't make for much of a story, or “. . . the newspapers of Utopia, he had long ago decided, would be terribly dull.” ― Arthur C. Clarke, _2001: A Space Odyssey_

That's just lack of imagination.

Re: Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

#52

Post by [deleted] »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #28
crooked-v wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>scifi >I don't want to hear about politics or sexuality How actually familiar are you with the genre?

Perhaps instead, the complaint should be that the reader should not be lectured about politics or sexuality in a ham-handed self-righteous insertion completely irrelevant to the rest of the story.

[deleted]

Re: Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

#53

Post by komali2 »

arcticfox wrote: post #8

I have a hard time reading sci-fi these days because the rapid advances of AI have altered or closed off entirely a lot of the futures that I would find most interesting. I have a hard time seeing much other than computers in the future. Maybe stories like the Hyperion Cantos with the AIs in the TechnoCore largely fighting amongst themselves over the future of humanity are still intersting to me.

Imo good sci fi was never really meant to be a technical description of cool technology, but more about how humans interact in specific scenarios dictated by the existence of certain technologies. Star Trek was less about the intricacies of the warp drive and more about "what if humans could interact with hundreds of unique cultures," or "what could human society look like without scarcity?"

There are many stories to tell in the age of AI. I've yet to find a good Luddite novel that explores how the technology might be taken by the commons, rather than hoarded and made to serve capital (the way governments have been). There's plenty of stories to tell around exploring university of ethics once we have a truly non human intelligence to reckon with. Accelerando spent just as much time exploring the legal implications of non-human intelligences as it did the underlying technology.

Re: Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

#54

Post by chongli »

api wrote: post #13
arcticfox wrote: post #8

I have a hard time reading sci-fi these days because the rapid advances of AI have altered or closed off entirely a lot of the futures that I would find most interesting. I have a hard time seeing much other than computers in the future. Maybe stories like the Hyperion Cantos with the AIs in the TechnoCore largely fighting amongst themselves over the future of humanity are still intersting to me.

Sci-fi is always about the future, or some possible future or alternate world, as imagined in the time it was written, and I think it has to be read that way. It's always about both the present (when it was written) and the future. It's basically fantasy except the magic is, to varying degrees, rooted in real science and physics. There is of course the whole hard/soft sci-fi continuum that determines just how rooted…

It's basically fantasy except the magic is, to varying degrees, rooted in real science and physics.

That's a superficial view of both Sci-Fi and Fantasy. Sure, there's a lot of schlock out there which essentially functions as this sort of meaningless escapism for the reader. But proper Sci-Fi and Fantasy is philosophical in a way that makes them radically different, if not diametrically opposed.

Fantasy stories typically depict a society in decay, with evil ascendant, and characters who yearn to return to a time of past innocence. It's ultimately backward looking and conservative. When it functions as social commentary, it's a critique of the alienation and impersonality of modernity.

Science Fiction is forward-looking. It asks "what if" questions about the limitations of our modern society by inviting us to view a society that has been freed from those limitations. It challenges our ideas about human nature. It's ultimately progressive, even when it depicts dystopian governments.

Re: Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

#55

Post by komali2 »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #28
crooked-v wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>scifi >I don't want to hear about politics or sexuality How actually familiar are you with the genre?

Perhaps instead, the complaint should be that the reader should not be lectured about politics or sexuality in a ham-handed self-righteous insertion completely irrelevant to the rest of the story.

Just go read engineering documentation about the Apollo flights then. What you're describing has never been sci-fi - you're falling in that camp of people the article described that are demanding authors not write above a fifth grade level.

Scifi has always been an exploration of the human condition within certain circumstances created by fantastic technologies. The human condition is made of politics, sexuality, philosophy, ethics, identity...

Re: Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

#56

Post by rockskon »

operatingthetan wrote: post #20
rockskon wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a purely economic standpoint, AI is its own worst enemy. Quicker to produce books made even cheaper and even automate-able? You could have AI generate the next Shakespeare and you'll almost certainly never get noticed amidst the flood of competing books.

It's fun to talk to an LLM yourself, but when I come upon someone else's output my eyes glaze over. I'm fine if an author uses AI to help them outline the book, brainstorm ideas, but I want the actual book to be written by a person.

While I personally agree, I figure an economic argument bypasses the often recited "but AI will get better!"

That very argument is also AI's downfall when it comes to writing books that'll sell.

Re: Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

#57

Post by komali2 »

throwpoaster wrote: post #5
throwpoaster wrote: post #2

[flagged]

Especially with Trek.

Do we need to keep reminding people that Star Trek depicted the first interracial kiss on television? Star Trek was always woke, over corporatization has just been sanding all political and social messages down to a corporate approved interpretation, aka boring, stupid, and not nearly inflammatory enough.

Re: Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

#58

Post by WillAdams »

modeless wrote: post #43
WillAdams wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, tales of the land of the happy nice people doesn't make for much of a story, or “. . . the newspapers of Utopia, he had long ago decided, would be terribly dull.” ― Arthur C. Clarke, _2001: A Space Odyssey_

Star Trek TNG was an interesting utopia. I want more of that. (Not more Star Trek, more utopia sci-fi).

But it kept getting undermined every other episode, to say nothing of things such as Section 31.

Re: Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

#59

Post by WillAdams »

awesome_dude wrote: post #45
WillAdams wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, tales of the land of the happy nice people doesn't make for much of a story, or “. . . the newspapers of Utopia, he had long ago decided, would be terribly dull.” ― Arthur C. Clarke, _2001: A Space Odyssey_

Or the matrix take - > Agent Smith tells Morpheus that the first, "perfect" Matrix failed because humanity requires suffering, leading them to create a simulation based on the "peak of your civilization"—1999. Smith highlights that the machines actually took over during this era, making it their civilization rather than humanity's. The choice of 1999 provided a stable,, yet inherently flawed, era characterized by 90s…

The thing about _The Matrix_ is that the world-building was much more interesting than the premise (to make a world in which comicbook superheroes made sense).

Not seeing why human misery is necessary --- that line always felt propaganda-like --- a utopia would arguably be more stable since there would be less striving for change.

Re: Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

#60

Post by WillAdams »

zouhair wrote: post #51
WillAdams wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, tales of the land of the happy nice people doesn't make for much of a story, or “. . . the newspapers of Utopia, he had long ago decided, would be terribly dull.” ― Arthur C. Clarke, _2001: A Space Odyssey_

That's just lack of imagination.

Well, Ursula K. LeGuin did author _Always Coming Home_, which I quite enjoyed, but it's a very different book which only seems to have a niche audience.
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