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Working and Communicating with Japanese Engineers

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Re: Working and Communicating with Japanese Engineers

#51

Worked for years in japan, beg to disagree. Love japanese and japan but their work culture is horrific - Japanese are inefficient and the veneer of looking to work "hard" is more important than the hard work itself. People often stay until ridiculously late just to show they "put in the effort" which is more important than outcome. Then again that happens in many other countries as well ...

Most places/countries/companies that value hard work tend to produce a lot, but I also wonder what goes on when it tilts too far and hard work becomes what you are measuring for. In the US for example there's still the vague idea that working hard is a virtue of sorts, but there's also an equivalent desire to produce something, be efficient, etc. I haven't directly experienced Japanese work culture (just language and…

> In the US for example there's still the vague idea that working hard is a virtue of sorts, but there's also an equivalent desire to produce something,

This is the root of a lot of busywork and bullshit jobs as well. People work hard producing something of little and often negative value.

Think of all the effort that goes into making competitive products, from life insurance and cellphone plans to airline tariffs difficult to compare. Compound that with advertising campaigns that don’t inform about the product or service they are selling. All that consumes colossal resources and deliver effectively negative value for society, for a market to be maximally efficient it needs informed consumers that can compare offerings.

Re: Working and Communicating with Japanese Engineers

#52
post #49
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I lived in Tokyo for 6 months as a digital nomad (so still working for an overseas employer.) As much as I love Japan, after hearing what the work culture is like I became pretty sure I didn't want to move there permanently. Not only is it an extremely unmeritocratic environment, the pay for software engs is rubbish. As a foreigner you'll more than likely be treated like dirt and passed up on for promotions. I…

I’ve heard people argue that Japan stays appealing because it is closed off and puts effort into maintaining their culture instead of modernizing into a generic western melting pot.

Moving to a different culture and adapting to it is a great way of shaking up your brain.

Moving between very different cultures is a challenge, but the rewards are accordingly nicer, but it really sucks when the new culture doesn’t welcome and integrate you into it.

Re: Working and Communicating with Japanese Engineers

#53
post #2

developers from the West see no problem with clearly stating their opposition to a topic and listing the reasons why they oppose it—in many ways, this is seen as good, clear communication. This style can sometimes be jarring to Japanese speakers, who generally prefer to avoid anything that could be taken as blunt or confrontational. This was buried at the end of the essay, but is one of the most important points. I w…

From what I understand, it’s not so much that all disagreement is to be avoided entirely, but rather that it should be done on an individual level prior to the meeting. So the fundamental difference is that a western company may use the meeting as an opportunity to discuss and debate an issue, whereas that process is done before the meeting in Japanese corporate culture.

In Japan and in many East Asian cultures, debate is behind closed doors. And it would have taken months. Meetings are for ceremony.

Re: Working and Communicating with Japanese Engineers

#54

Do Japanese people know English?

Standard Japanese public education through to college/university include ~1k hours total of English classes, changing but still focused on word-for-word translations.

The goal and aim of those classes (I think) is so that 21st century Japanese engineers can decode foreign scientific papers and encode export user manuals on their own.

And so Japanese engineers can interpret and compose English text files as, one would handle C-like code. Consequently read/write data rates as well as emotional grasp are closer to that for code than speech, and the ability also gets dubious quick for anything "platform" specific and not literal. Like, even "to pull off" will cause an exception and quick jump/return with "achieve". It would be fair to say that calling it English literacy is a bit of a stretch.

It will do for many purposes, so in that sense, yes, Japanese people do know English.

There are people(not me) from rich or otherwise unique backgrounds or educated before WWII who use actual English and not that embedded English Lite, they're rare.

Re: Working and Communicating with Japanese Engineers

#55
post #19

"we really need to focus on user-facing touchpoints, because there’s too much sign-up friction. Like, we need to 10x the stickiness of the landing page but also keep it lean," Even as a native English speaker I find this type of language hard to understand, fluffy and ambiguous. We would all benefit from using plain language not just non native English speakers

Who the hell talks like this in the first place? I've worked in Japan for 7 years and majority of the time you will not be working with native English speakers, usually people who speak multiple languages at all times, if you're only language you know is English you are the minority and people will have to work with you to understand. I couldnt even finish the article after that insane ramble of gibberish I'm genuine…

> Who the hell talks like this in the first place?

People trying to hide their own lack of knowledge and ability

Re: Working and Communicating with Japanese Engineers

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re actually using jargon to explain jargon here. Try explaining all of this from the user’s perspective.

Which terms/explanations are confusing?

Sign-up friction, bounce rate, touch points, bloat

Re: Working and Communicating with Japanese Engineers

#57

Worked for years in japan, beg to disagree. Love japanese and japan but their work culture is horrific - Japanese are inefficient and the veneer of looking to work "hard" is more important than the hard work itself. People often stay until ridiculously late just to show they "put in the effort" which is more important than outcome. Then again that happens in many other countries as well ...

Most places/countries/companies that value hard work tend to produce a lot, but I also wonder what goes on when it tilts too far and hard work becomes what you are measuring for. In the US for example there's still the vague idea that working hard is a virtue of sorts, but there's also an equivalent desire to produce something, be efficient, etc. I haven't directly experienced Japanese work culture (just language and…

> In the US for example there's still the vague idea that working hard is a virtue of sorts

And easily demonstrable when meeting someone in a social setting:

"Hi, what's your name?"

Then the very next question: "What do you do for a living?"

Re: Working and Communicating with Japanese Engineers

#58
Worked for famous Japanese data platform for a few years. The Japanese engineers were collegial but some who didn't come in to the office were actually Hikikomori focused on very narrow things and were very nitpicky about details that wouldn't have ultimately mattered. Those that came into the Tokyo office lived to work and I saw people regularly sleeping at their desk after having stayed out all night for obligatory whiskey outing with colleagues and arriving at the office at 6 am as expected. The San Fran office was the opposite, very sloppy standards people, getting in at noon and staying up late to meet deadlines. The impedence mismatch between the two environments was almost unbearable.

Re: Working and Communicating with Japanese Engineers

#59
post #52
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve heard people argue that Japan stays appealing because it is closed off and puts effort into maintaining their culture instead of modernizing into a generic western melting pot.

Moving to a different culture and adapting to it is a great way of shaking up your brain. Moving between very different cultures is a challenge, but the rewards are accordingly nicer, but it really sucks when the new culture doesn’t welcome and integrate you into it.

It is difficult for a culture to find a good balance between openness and conservation.
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