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Is there evidence that drugs can help programmers produce “better” code?

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Re: Is there evidence that drugs can help programmers produce “better” code?

#51

Post by damncabbage »

mistercow wrote: post #12
xutopia wrote: post #8

That reminds me of the time I was taking pot while in college. During one class I was completely zoned into the cursor and moved it back and forth 5-6 pixels across the screen. My experience though it is anecdotal seems to rule out at least cannabinoids.

Dosage is an important consideration, though. I know someone who used to use pot as a programming aid, but he had to be very careful with the dosage. By using very small amounts spread out over the day, he could maintain a flow state that let him churn out code for hours and hours. He didn't find it all that helpful for design and planning, but for large projects that involved an overwhelming amount of fairly boring…

flywheel has an interesting reply to this, but he has been hellbanned. Go to your preferences and turn showdead on to see it.

Re: Is there evidence that drugs can help programmers produce “better” code?

#53

Post by 6ren »

We have to mention the famous mathematician Paul Erdős http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erd%C5%91s

  After 1971 he also took amphetamines, despite the concern of his friends, one of
  whom bet him $500 that he could not stop taking the drug for a month. Erdős won the
  bet, but complained that during his abstinence mathematics had been set back by a
  month: "Before, when I looked at a piece of blank paper my mind was filled with
  ideas. Now all I see is a blank piece of paper." After he won the bet, he promptly
  resumed his amphetamine use.
He also liked coffee.

Note: effective programming in the real world is absolutely not the same as mathematics - but some would argue that the essence of it is.

Re: Is there evidence that drugs can help programmers produce “better” code?

#54

Post by waterlesscloud »

gourneau wrote: post #48
pchivers wrote: post #39

From what I understand there is only one study on the relationship between creativity and LSD: Psychedelic agents in creative problem-solving: a pilot study. Harman WW, McKim RH, Mogar RE, Fadiman J, Stolaroff MJ. Psychol Rep. 1966 Aug;19(1):211-27. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelics_in_problem-solving... The results suggested that LSD has a positive effect on creative problem solving. I think it is a shame th…

I wonder how many adherents Steve Jobs have dosed LSD because of his advice.

I recently read the book _What The Dormouse Said_, which is about the early days of silicon valley computer culture and the interaction of that culture with the counter culture.

According to that book, there was a notable portion of the people in that early SV culture who at least experimented with LSD, and there was even an organization called the "International Foundation for Advanced Study" in Menlo Park that was founded by an engineer to study the possible benefits of LSD use among engineers.

Re: Is there evidence that drugs can help programmers produce “better” code?

#55

Post by waterlesscloud »

noonespecial wrote: post #31

I scale the Ballmer Peak on a regular basis. I've semi-scientifically mapped out the exact amount required to get the desired effect. I've started trying to plot the continuous consumption rate required to spend more time at the summit. I have spreadsheets.

We called it "two beer logic" in college. The effect was real, though possibly placebo driven.

Re: Is there evidence that drugs can help programmers produce “better” code?

#57

Post by klibertp »

meds_means_hide wrote: post #29

LSD: I have found it possible to use it to gain insight. (Cisco systems had some key person(s?) using LSD to design products.) The problem is that you can trick yourself quite easily into "discovering" things which end up not meaning much. So you do need some care, and perhaps someone to help guide you. For beginners, I'd say LSD's bigger benefit is being able to reshape how you think and handle life rather than unde…

> Opiates [...] (Biggest downside here is addiction

Dependency. Addiction is very similar for all the things you mention, physical dependency is unique to opiates (at least in comparison with LSD, pot and amphetamine).

Re: Is there evidence that drugs can help programmers produce “better” code?

#58

Post by ekianjo »

otakucode wrote: post #23
derefr wrote: post #9

You tend to use the very specific phrase "nootropic drugs" to talk about drugs which help with productivity or creativity or some other aspect of working life. Asking whether there is evidence on nootropics, is just asking whether there are any heavily-tested nootropics. Asking anything else--to lex it out, whether "drugs that have no productivity-enhancing aspect, enhance productivity" is just playing the fool to in…

You made a good point that I just wanted to make explicit, because I think it is generally not something people know or at least not something they've thought much about - The FDA has a very specific mandate. They regulate any substance which "treats, prevents, or cures any disease." They specifically do not regulate, or test for, any substance which would claim to improve the functioning of a healthy person. If a dr…

Completely false. Be it for the potential side effects of such a substance, it would be considered as a drug anyway since it would require proper medical monitoring. Even cosmetics are sometimes at the borderline of drugs based on the claims they make and the effects they have.

The reason why alcohol and cigarettes are not regulated as drugs is rather based on historical, political and economical factors. They have existed for a long time and people are considered responsible enough to know how not to abuse them, they have a well known risk factor, and they bring back lots of tax money to society when authorized.

But for any new substance, you bet FDA would be involved, no matter whether you call it a drug or not.

Re: Is there evidence that drugs can help programmers produce “better” code?

#60

Post by Supreme »

klibertp wrote: post #17
derefr wrote: post #9

You tend to use the very specific phrase "nootropic drugs" to talk about drugs which help with productivity or creativity or some other aspect of working life. Asking whether there is evidence on nootropics, is just asking whether there are any heavily-tested nootropics. Asking anything else--to lex it out, whether "drugs that have no productivity-enhancing aspect, enhance productivity" is just playing the fool to in…

I'm not an expert, but I'd like to comment on your statement that discussing non-nootropics in this context is pointless. I think it is not, and my argument goes like this: you code better when in mood to do so. Certain psychoactive substances make it easier to fall in certain moods, easier to change your mood or even forcibly change your mood for you (like some of benzodiazepines or MDM, MDMA). Their working is not…

> benzodiazepines generally lower cognitive ability

On the subject of a particular drug sometimes being useful and sometimes counter-productive, the missing link is that the brain has several points of neurochemical homeostasis - these are also known as 'moods'. Moving from a given mood to another requires some combination of influences. E.g. moving from mood X to Y may require a boost in dopamine while moving from mood Z to Y may require more GABA. This is why it's relative and different people are not affected by the same drugs in the same ways - their baseline levels of major neurotransmitters differ. So one person has a natural tendency towards mood X while another tends towards mood Y - i.e. one person has naturally high dopamine levels which another has high levels of serotonin.

I believe that these tendencies are the result of the body adapting to the conditions it grew up in. The major factors I can see are diet, the social situation (both in terms of family and culture-at-large), amount of exercise, genetics and pollutants.

I completely agree that mood and productivity are inherently inseparable. It's not a one way relationship either - they affect each other. Hell, everything in the brain seems to affect everything else in the brain. It's a giant web of dependencies and influences. It reminds me a lot of badly designed legacy software systems - everything makes sense when you dig in deep but looks like an absolute mess from afar.

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