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This time is different

shkspr.mobi

51–60 of 400 posts

Re: This time is different

#51
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and we'll be able to see if all the hype was warranted. Umm, what? For the past 3 years, every year I've said something along the lines of "even if models stop improving now, we'll be working on this for years, finding new ways to use it and make cool stuff happen". The hype is already warranted. To have used these tools and not be hyped is simply denial at this point.

Maybe AI is useful to you, but the US economy is currently buoyed by promises of AI replacing the workforce across the board. Most of Mag-7 are planning to spend over 500B on capex this year alone on building out datacenters for AI pipelines that have yet to prove that it can generate a sustainable profit. Yes, AI is useful in some environments, but the current pricing is heavily subsidized. So my point stand, the hy…

I think our little corner of the world has a distorted view of AI in that it is actually proving useful for us. Once they passed a certain level of usefulness... I remember when they were still struggling just to output syntactically correct code, you know, like, 18 months ago or so... they became a useful tool that we can incorporate.

But there's a lot of things playing out to our advantage. Vast swathes of useful and publicly available training data. The rigorous precision of said data. Vast swathes of data we can feed it as input to our queries from our own codebases. While we never attained the perfect ideal we dreamed of, we have vast quantities of documentation at differing levels of abstraction that the training can compare to the code bases. We've already been arguing in our community about how design patterns were just level of abstraction our coding couldn't capture and AI has access now to all sorts of design patterns we wouldn't have even called design patterns because they still take lots of code to produce, but now for example, if I have a process that I need to parallelize it can pretty much just do it in any of several ways depending on what I need at that point.

It is easy to get too overexcited about what it can do and I suspect we're going to see an absolute flood of "We let AI into our code base and it has absolutely shredded it and now even the most expensive AI can't do anything with it anymore" in, oh, 3 to 6 months. Not that everyone is going to have that experience, but I think we're going to see it. Right now we're still at the phase where people call you crazy for that and insist it must have been you using the tool wrong. But it is clearly an amazing tool for all sorts of uses.

Nevertheless, despite my own experiences, I persist in believing there is an AI bubble, because while AI may replace vast swathes of the work force in 5-20 years, for quite a lot of the workforce, it is not ready to do it right this very instant like the pricing on Wall Street is assuming. They don't have gigabytes of high-quality training data to pour in to their system. They don't have rigorous syntax rules to incorporate into the training data. They don't have any equivalent of being guided by tests to keep things on the rails. They don't have large piles of professionally developed documentation that can be cross-checked directly against the implementation. It's going to be a slower, longer process. As with the dot-com bubble, it isn't that it isn't going to change the world, it is simply that it isn't going to change the world quite that fast.

Re: This time is different

#52
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and we'll be able to see if all the hype was warranted. Umm, what? For the past 3 years, every year I've said something along the lines of "even if models stop improving now, we'll be working on this for years, finding new ways to use it and make cool stuff happen". The hype is already warranted. To have used these tools and not be hyped is simply denial at this point.

i think the point is AI has to go much further and faster than it has in the past 3 years to justify the investments being made from the hype. The hype did its job now the AI industry has to execute and create the returns they promised. That is still very much up in the air, if they can't then the tech was over hyped.

This.

It's high time to stop accumulating debt while providing free picture of pelicycles, just charge the full cost for them - enough to generate profits and pay back debt.

What we see now is literally burning money and energy to generate hype. The only true measures of success are financial and macroeconomic. If the hype is real, there should be no problem for the mighty AI to generate debt-free profits for its providers while the overall price level in the US goes down.

We observe the exact opposite which makes the AI hype act only as market manipulation for capital misallocation.

Re: This time is different

#53
I’m doing enterprise coding tasks that used to take a month of whole team coordination from mockups to through development and testing in 3 days now. It’s all test driven development, codex 5.3 and a small team of two people who know how to hold it right orchestrating the agents. There’s no reason not to work this way. The sociotechnical engineering aspects of this change are fascinating and rewarding to solve.

Re: This time is different

#54
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their Ninebot escooters are pretty damn good, far better than most random brands. I spent most of Covid in VRChat and met my current live-in gf, so the metaverse was real for me too. I also made decent money selling crypto, so that part was real for me too. And AI coding, for as dumb as even the best models are, still enabled me to create things that I wanted to, but wouldn't have had time or gotten nearly as far wit…

> I dunno if the author realizes, but all the things they mentioned did materialize in one way or another, just not exactly how the hype described it. From the post, which is not a very long one: "All of the above technologies are still chugging along in some form or other (well, OK, not Quibi). Some are vaguely useful and others are propped up by weirdo cultists"

Fair, I read the whole post but I guess that part didn't register, maybe because I never fullheartedly believe marketing fluff to begin with. Maybe this person has too much contact with "AI will fix everything" types, and not enough with actual scientists who are really developing novel methods better than anything before, piece by piece.

I also found the "it's almost always dudes" line a bit strange, because I've seen plenty of women doing marketing for startups running on hype.

Re: This time is different

#55

Honestly, the remixes this generation suck compared to priors. "This time will be different," they said about the Metaverse, ignoring the vast tranches of MUCKs, MUDs, MMOs, LSGs, and repeated digital real estate gold rushes of the past half-century. Billions burned on something anyone who played Second Life, Entropia, FFXIV, EQ2, VRChat, or fucking Furcadia could've told you wasn't going to succeed, because it wasn'…

Is this “nothing ever happens”

Re: This time is different

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if that was an automated HN edit? Similarly to how titles that start with "how" usually have that word automatically removed.

Usually HN only auto-edits on first submission. If you go in and undo it manually as the submitter, you can force it to read how you intend.

Maybe I'm only noticing the times when it messes things up, but it kinda seems like these auto-edits cause a lot of confusion that could be avoided if they were shown up-front to submitters, who would then have the option to undo them.

Or maybe judicious use of an LLM here could be helpful. Replace the auto-edits with a prompt? Ask an LLM to judge whether the auto-edited title still retains its original meaning? Run the old and new titles through an embedding model and make sure they still point in roughly the same direction?

Re: This time is different

#59

I’m doing enterprise coding tasks that used to take a month of whole team coordination from mockups to through development and testing in 3 days now. It’s all test driven development, codex 5.3 and a small team of two people who know how to hold it right orchestrating the agents. There’s no reason not to work this way. The sociotechnical engineering aspects of this change are fascinating and rewarding to solve.

Can you give an example of such features?

Re: This time is different

#60
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think the point is AI has to go much further and faster than it has in the past 3 years to justify the investments being made from the hype. The hype did its job now the AI industry has to execute and create the returns they promised. That is still very much up in the air, if they can't then the tech was over hyped.

This. It's high time to stop accumulating debt while providing free picture of pelicycles, just charge the full cost for them - enough to generate profits and pay back debt. What we see now is literally burning money and energy to generate hype. The only true measures of success are financial and macroeconomic. If the hype is real, there should be no problem for the mighty AI to generate debt-free profits for its pro…

unlike the old hpc, where we only burned hundreds of millions for machines that were 80% efficient to get a 5 year lead, we are burning hundreds of billions on machines that are 30% efficient to get a 1 year lead.
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