More cows, more wives • Hacker News Board

Re: More cows, more wives

#51

Post by kelseyfrog » Sat, Feb 28, 2026, 8:35 PM UTC

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #42

blfr wrote: post #24

most people in the world don’t and have never lived like Europeans Yeah, but, as it turns out with modern migration trends, the revealed preference is that they would want to, given an opportunity. Being European, I would also prefer to live like a European. Lifelong monogamy as a default and an almost universal ban on kin marriage seem to be solid contributors here. Also, I don't think the current remnants of hunter…

These societies are the failed people we left behind. They’re like the PHP developers of humankind. They limp on, but everyone else moved on a long time ago. If they were successful, they wouldn’t still be doing it.

The simpler explanation is that they continue to do it because it is successful.

Re: More cows, more wives

#52

Post by cornholio » Sat, Feb 28, 2026, 9:03 PM UTC

It's hard to believe such an in depth overview of the anthropology of marriage skips the massive elephant in the room: that polygynous societies were widely found to be in a perpetual state of civil war and seem unable to develop stable, modern institutions. When a substantial part of your young men have no chance of ever buying themselves a wife, the only way they can be recognized and respected as adult men is to join a militia that promises one, or at least gives them guns so they can aquire by force the cows they need.

The corollary for western monogamous society should be clear: traditional marriage is not strictly repressive, it's also a form of egalitarianism and redistribution of social capital.

If we dismantle marriage and let raw pastoralist dynamics run rampant, we might very well see the same hypergamous tendencies and that many of those excluded from the love market take up "other", less peaceful pastimes.

Re: More cows, more wives

#53

Post by dzonga » Sat, Feb 28, 2026, 9:08 PM UTC

great article.

one thing it mentions is how in Europe etc - places with limited land quickly pivoted to monogamy was due to limited resources. in places with limited resources, raising kids under monogamy has shown to produce the best results i.e kids tend to have better future success.

however, even though legal systems in the west restrict polygyny - due to inequality - its coming back - we already see that with onlyfans etc / high levels of prostitution in younger western females - the richer guys can maintain a harem - while the plebs become sexless incels.

Re: More cows, more wives

#54

Post by poly2it » Sat, Feb 28, 2026, 9:12 PM UTC

dzonga wrote: post #53

great article. one thing it mentions is how in Europe etc - places with limited land quickly pivoted to monogamy was due to limited resources. in places with limited resources, raising kids under monogamy has shown to produce the best results i.e kids tend to have better future success. however, even though legal systems in the west restrict polygyny - due to inequality - its coming back - we already see that with on…

I feel a source is warranted.

Re: More cows, more wives

#55

Post by buckle8017 » Sat, Feb 28, 2026, 9:20 PM UTC

cornholio wrote: post #52

It's hard to believe such an in depth overview of the anthropology of marriage skips the massive elephant in the room: that polygynous societies were widely found to be in a perpetual state of civil war and seem unable to develop stable, modern institutions. When a substantial part of your young men have no chance of ever buying themselves a wife, the only way they can be recognized and respected as adult men is to j…

This has already happened in a bunch of western countries to a limited extent.

The incel people are this social dynamic.

Re: More cows, more wives

#56

Post by daymanstep » Sat, Feb 28, 2026, 9:27 PM UTC

cornholio wrote: post #52

It's hard to believe such an in depth overview of the anthropology of marriage skips the massive elephant in the room: that polygynous societies were widely found to be in a perpetual state of civil war and seem unable to develop stable, modern institutions. When a substantial part of your young men have no chance of ever buying themselves a wife, the only way they can be recognized and respected as adult men is to j…

If that's the case, then how comes China, which has a massive excess of males, hasn't erupted into civil war yet?

Re: More cows, more wives

#57

Post by buckle8017 » Sat, Feb 28, 2026, 9:30 PM UTC

daymanstep wrote: post #56

cornholio wrote: post #52

It's hard to believe such an in depth overview of the anthropology of marriage skips the massive elephant in the room: that polygynous societies were widely found to be in a perpetual state of civil war and seem unable to develop stable, modern institutions. When a substantial part of your young men have no chance of ever buying themselves a wife, the only way they can be recognized and respected as adult men is to j…

If that's the case, then how comes China, which has a massive excess of males, hasn't erupted into civil war yet?

Extremely effective social controls designed to suppress an insurrection for all the other reasons Chinese would have wanted to revolt over the years.

Re: More cows, more wives

#58

Post by matheusmoreira » Sat, Feb 28, 2026, 10:13 PM UTC

buckle8017 wrote: post #55

cornholio wrote: post #52

It's hard to believe such an in depth overview of the anthropology of marriage skips the massive elephant in the room: that polygynous societies were widely found to be in a perpetual state of civil war and seem unable to develop stable, modern institutions. When a substantial part of your young men have no chance of ever buying themselves a wife, the only way they can be recognized and respected as adult men is to j…

This has already happened in a bunch of western countries to a limited extent. The incel people are this social dynamic.

It all makes sense when viewed through the economic lens.

Sexual freedom is a lot like capitalism. It leads to wealth concentration. Very few men attract the majority of women. This implies a class of sexually poor men. I suppose so called incels rising up and trying to seize the means of reproduction is a predictable outcome.

Many religions impose a sort of sexual communism: they try to stabilize society by imposing monogamous relationships, thereby ensuring availability of women for every man and preventing the accumulation of sexual capital. This explicitly counteracts the hypergamous dynamic mentioned in TFA where women would prefer to share a rich man than be in a monogamous relationship with a poor one.

Re: More cows, more wives

#59

Post by em-bee » Sat, Feb 28, 2026, 10:17 PM UTC

Conscat wrote: post #40

bluGill wrote: post #28

> And fathers who wish to divorce assume that the mothers of their children will be fine raising children alone with the support of their family, the state, and their salaries. This makes the false assumption that men don't care about their children. Society and the courts tend to agree with it, but the vast majority of divorced men I know complain about how little they get to see their children, combined with how th…

Statistically, fathers who ask the courts for joint custody almost always receive it. Occam's Razor dictates these men you know most likely prefer to complain about their divorce rather than to do the arduous work of parenting. They can also renegotiate this circumstance if they feel like it.

or the parents really just don't get along. seriously, i'd rather give up my kids than deal with a horrible partner. if i could deal with her, why even get a divorce (unless the partner pushes for it)? i am glad that my parents did not get joint custody when they divorced. it would have been a disaster.

Re: More cows, more wives

#60

Post by cornholio » Sat, Feb 28, 2026, 10:18 PM UTC

daymanstep wrote: post #56

cornholio wrote: post #52

It's hard to believe such an in depth overview of the anthropology of marriage skips the massive elephant in the room: that polygynous societies were widely found to be in a perpetual state of civil war and seem unable to develop stable, modern institutions. When a substantial part of your young men have no chance of ever buying themselves a wife, the only way they can be recognized and respected as adult men is to j…

If that's the case, then how comes China, which has a massive excess of males, hasn't erupted into civil war yet?

China does not have a "massive" excess of males, just around 3-4% overall. The worst hit generations showed 15% more males than global averages, but this seems to be largely an administrative effect where girls were simply reported with a delay.

That being said, China does face a bride price crisis (caili), that has reached tens of thousands of dollars, an exorbitant sum for the the rural areas where it is common. This has led to unrest and public pressure on the government to intervene and regulate this market.