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Stop Killing Games update says EU petition advances

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Re: Stop Killing Games update says EU petition advances

#51

Post by wvenable »

imiric wrote: post #47
wvenable wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other, though, the companies that produce games that stop working are not worth supporting. But how can you make an informed purchasing decision based on something that hasn't happened yet? What about new studios?

You don't pre-order, and you wait for reviews. But usually this is a problem of repeat offenders. Fool me once... Nowadays with shovelware and AI slop, new studios can also release garbage, but you don't have to play on day 1. At some point you start trusting certain studios and publishers, which makes things a bit easier. Trust is difficult to earn, but easy to lose. The problem is that many people keep trusting con…

> You don't pre-order, and you wait for reviews.

...you wait several years for them to not shut down the servers?

In the end, without government intervention, is there any hope that any game beign developed right now will be able to be played in 20 years? I don't think so.

Re: Stop Killing Games update says EU petition advances

#52

Post by seangrogg »

maccard wrote: post #35
cousin_it wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "demanding others make things for you". It's demanding they don't remotely disable the thing you already bought. Imagine you buy a car, then a few years later the company remotely disables it because they're selling a newer model. Without giving you the money back of course. That's what's happening with games. And not just multiplayer: tons of single player games have been killed this way. The whole SKG thin…

Why is this only targeted at games and not mobile apps, app subscriptions or websites. This pretty much removes the ability to use _any_ commercial software without a custom license which is just insanity. No using any AWS services in case the pull the rug on you. You might argue “but you can X and you can Y”, and that’s true, but again why is this only a problem for games?

SKG is basically "right-to-repair" but for games. I do contend that if your phone breaks and the company says "we won't fix it and you aren't allowed to" then the government isn't doing its job. On the same token, if a game that you purchased turns off their servers and says "we won't run it and you aren't allowed to" then the government isn't doing its job.

Now, how I would be able to run it is a very open question and I do agree there are some ways that are more reasonable asks than others. But the present-day status quo of "company says suck eggs and you just have to deal with it" is not an acceptable final state.

Re: Stop Killing Games update says EU petition advances

#53

Post by BlitzGeology91 »

SunshineTheCat wrote: post #29

I in no way mean this to be rude, but I think a big part of why the EU isn't in the same galaxy as the US in the realm of business in general, is in some part, the knee jerk reaction to turn to the government to make products and services better. Governments cannot make you an alternative, they can only make something that already exists, different (usually worse). I have zero interest in creating in the gaming space…

> But at least by going down that road, you end up with more games, better games, and people learning skills throughout the process. And who knows, maybe one is a mega success.

Yes, but in that scenario, some really good games would still die. So it would good to make it illegal to kill games in addition to making more games.

> Sure, you can stand there pounding your chest for "democracy," but I contend that those who are building their own things are practicing it far more than those who are demanding others make things for them.

I mean, in the short term, yes, the Stop Killing Games movement is demanding that others do some work for them. But, in the long term, the Stop Killing Games movement is asking for others to do less work.

The only reason why games are being killed are because companies are putting in extra effort to include self-destruct mechanisms in games. If a company doesn’t want to bother disarming these self-destruct mechanisms, then there is a simple solution: don’t create the self-destruct mechanisms to begin with. It’s much easier to create games that don’t have self-destruct mechanisms.

I’m a strong supporter of demanding that companies stop doing bad things and that they put in effort to undo the bad things that they have already done.

Re: Stop Killing Games update says EU petition advances

#54

Post by BlitzGeology91 »

qwe----3 wrote: post #36
cousin_it wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "demanding others make things for you". It's demanding they don't remotely disable the thing you already bought. Imagine you buy a car, then a few years later the company remotely disables it because they're selling a newer model. Without giving you the money back of course. That's what's happening with games. And not just multiplayer: tons of single player games have been killed this way. The whole SKG thin…

I don't believe a ton of true single player games have been killed this way. For multiplayer games your car analogy completely fails. The car company doesn't pay the road tax, or gas, or your mechanic.

I’m kind of confused. In your metaphor, what do the road tax, gas or mechanic represent?

Re: Stop Killing Games update says EU petition advances

#55

Post by ffsm8 »

SunshineTheCat wrote: post #29

I in no way mean this to be rude, but I think a big part of why the EU isn't in the same galaxy as the US in the realm of business in general, is in some part, the knee jerk reaction to turn to the government to make products and services better. Governments cannot make you an alternative, they can only make something that already exists, different (usually worse). I have zero interest in creating in the gaming space…

> I think a big part of why the EU isn't in the same galaxy as the US in the realm of business in general, is in some part, the knee jerk reaction to turn to the government to make products and services better.

Hilarious take considering the initiative is a brainchild of an American.

The initiative is in the EU because the US doesn't have a way for citizens to force the legislative to make decisions. This is on record, with him plainly stating it. Not an interpretation or anything

> Sure, you can stand there pounding your chest for "democracy," but I contend that those who are building their own things are practicing it far more than those who are demanding others make things for them.

Srsly, this is as big brain as you can get. Are you seriously unaware that quiet a few of the most selling games were made in the EU?

Re: Stop Killing Games update says EU petition advances

#56

Post by hippo22 »

patmorgan23 wrote: post #42
SunshineTheCat wrote: post #29

I in no way mean this to be rude, but I think a big part of why the EU isn't in the same galaxy as the US in the realm of business in general, is in some part, the knee jerk reaction to turn to the government to make products and services better. Governments cannot make you an alternative, they can only make something that already exists, different (usually worse). I have zero interest in creating in the gaming space…

Maybe, I think a bigger reason is that Europe doesn't have near the level of regulatory harmonization that the US has. There are tons of policy areas where member states just do whatever they want, in pretty important areas. Like the US has a single bankruptcy code, and state commercial codes are all pretty close to the UCC, that's not the case in Europe. The current EU commission president is pushing pretty hard to…

[flagged]

Re: Stop Killing Games update says EU petition advances

#58

Post by jlawson »

cousin_it wrote: post #30
SunshineTheCat wrote: post #29

I in no way mean this to be rude, but I think a big part of why the EU isn't in the same galaxy as the US in the realm of business in general, is in some part, the knee jerk reaction to turn to the government to make products and services better. Governments cannot make you an alternative, they can only make something that already exists, different (usually worse). I have zero interest in creating in the gaming space…

It's not "demanding others make things for you". It's demanding they don't remotely disable the thing you already bought. Imagine you buy a car, then a few years later the company remotely disables it because they're selling a newer model. Without giving you the money back of course. That's what's happening with games. And not just multiplayer: tons of single player games have been killed this way. The whole SKG thin…

SKG is more like if the car company is required to provide a working factory, capable of manufacturing all the car's parts, along with working supply chains for all those things, to the car ownership "community", if they ever want to stop manufacturing that kind of car. They're required to do this for free.

You know, so the "community" can take it over and keep manufacturing parts to keep the car going forever.

Modern multiplayer game infrastructure is extremely complex; you don't just "hand over the server code". It's a massive multimillion dollar project to do anything analogous to that, and this project is mandatory and must be done for free. And no, gamers won't expect to pay any more because of SKG.

Re: Stop Killing Games update says EU petition advances

#59

Post by meheleventyone »

BlitzGeology91 wrote: post #53
SunshineTheCat wrote: post #29

I in no way mean this to be rude, but I think a big part of why the EU isn't in the same galaxy as the US in the realm of business in general, is in some part, the knee jerk reaction to turn to the government to make products and services better. Governments cannot make you an alternative, they can only make something that already exists, different (usually worse). I have zero interest in creating in the gaming space…

> But at least by going down that road, you end up with more games, better games, and people learning skills throughout the process. And who knows, maybe one is a mega success. Yes, but in that scenario, some really good games would still die. So it would good to make it illegal to kill games in addition to making more games. > Sure, you can stand there pounding your chest for "democracy," but I contend that those wh…

There are no self-destruct mechanisms put into games. I’m sure you have a point but this attempt at articulating it is confusing.

Re: Stop Killing Games update says EU petition advances

#60

Post by meheleventyone »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #40
qwe----3 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe a ton of true single player games have been killed this way. For multiplayer games your car analogy completely fails. The car company doesn't pay the road tax, or gas, or your mechanic.

There have been a few, and they make fantastic examples to bring up when explaining the concept to people without a broad understanding of the market.

There were about 20,000 games released on Steam last year how many worked that way?
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