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Half million 'Words with Spaces' missing from dictionaries

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Re: Half million 'Words with Spaces' missing from dictionaries

#51
post #33

There are nearly half a million compound phrases that aren’t in any dictionary—simply because they contain spaces. “Boiling water.” “Saturday night.” “Help me.” I would hope that none of those examples were taking up space in a dictionary.

It's quite interesting that "boiling water" in many Slavic languages is actually a separate word (and not derived from "water", but from "boiling"; similar how the author mentions "ice" being used instead of "frozen water").

[deleted]

Re: Half million 'Words with Spaces' missing from dictionaries

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you say more on this?

Consider phrasal verbs like "shut up", "get lost" or "kick off". Knowing what the parts mean doesn't let you understand the whole. In your native tongue you take these for granted, but in a second language you have to learn that the sum is more (or different) than the parts.

These particular examples are figures of speech, so "shut" in "shut up" still means the same thing it would mean in "shut the door." And "up" is used the same way as "cover up."

So the issue is just that this is figurative language, and you have to know that a kickoff is the beginning of certain sports, for example. It's more of a cultural issue than something a dictionary needs to fix.

Re: Half million 'Words with Spaces' missing from dictionaries

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freezing water doesn't have a word, it only gets one after water has changed phase. Boiling water also gets a word once it has changed phase: steam. ice - water - steam

Steam is liquid water droplets suspended in gas; water in the gas phase is “water vapor” which also doesn't have a single word. This is also an interesting case because “vapor” without a qualifier also refers to a suspension of solid or liquid particles in gas (of which “steam” is a particular example).

this is an interesting distinction that i was unaware of.

Re: Half million 'Words with Spaces' missing from dictionaries

#55
This boils down to an "is Pluto a planet" debate.

We act as if some languages have "compound words" that can encompass entire sentences (subject & object attaching to the verb as prefixes or suffixes) while others don't form compounds, and most are somewhere in between. But these are all statements about lexicographic conventions and say nothing about the languages. In reality all languages are muddles sprawling across a multidimensional continuum, and they abso-frigging-lutely do n't sit neatly in such pigeonholes.

Re: Half million 'Words with Spaces' missing from dictionaries

#56
post #23

“Hospital bills”. That’s very country specific. Also, that’s two words.

Hospital bills feels like a pretty ordinary compound to me - not like "good morning" or "ginger ale" where you can't just use what you know about the two words to figure out what the compound must mean.

Some cases are basically impossible "Crash blossoms" you don't stand any chance without knowing why we call them that

Some are middling difficult, "Home Secretary" requires that you know every meaning for the two words and then you happen to pick the correct obscure meaning, a "Secretary" could be in charge, and "Home" could mean the entire country as distinct from everywhere else.

But "Hospital bills" doesn't seem even marginally difficult

Re: Half million 'Words with Spaces' missing from dictionaries

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rest of the article did a good job explaining that. I just think those were terrible examples for the introduction. I think "shut up", "good night", and "hot dog" would have really got the point across better, but those might already be in dictionaries.

'hot dog' belongs in a thesaurus, not a dictionary. It's just a type of sausage.

All words in a thesaurus would generally also be in a dictionary? The difference between a thesaurus and a dictionary is what each tells you about a word.

Re: Half million 'Words with Spaces' missing from dictionaries

#58
post #11

> Got a word Didn’t > frozen water → ice boiling water Freezing water doesn’t have a word. Boiled water does have a word.

A mixture of melting ice and water suitable for drinking has a word: ice water. It's not a adjective noun phrase. It has a more specific meaning than just the two words together. You can order an ice water at a restaurant

Re: Half million 'Words with Spaces' missing from dictionaries

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some are better than others. Many semi-transparents could get legit coverage. And many are good fodder for word game content.

The rest of the article did a good job explaining that. I just think those were terrible examples for the introduction. I think "shut up", "good night", and "hot dog" would have really got the point across better, but those might already be in dictionaries.

Fair point. I just rewrote the intro w/ the naming-function argument first.

Re: Half million 'Words with Spaces' missing from dictionaries

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freezing water doesn't have a word, it only gets one after water has changed phase. Boiling water also gets a word once it has changed phase: steam. ice - water - steam

Steam is liquid water droplets suspended in gas; water in the gas phase is “water vapor” which also doesn't have a single word. This is also an interesting case because “vapor” without a qualifier also refers to a suspension of solid or liquid particles in gas (of which “steam” is a particular example).

"Steam is liquid water droplets suspended in gas": You clearly did not work on steam-powered ships (or land-based steam power plants). I was Main Propulsion Assistant on a steam powered destroyer, and I can assure you that every effort is made to prevent droplets being suspended in the steam--because such droplets erode the blades on steam turbines. To that end, steam coming out of the stem drum (the upper part of the boiler) is run through superheaters, which raise the temperature of the incoming steam to evaporate any droplets. On our ship, the steam coming off the steam drum was a bit over 1200 psi and 600 some degrees Fahrenheit. After it goes through the superheaters, it's about the same pressure but 975 degrees.

And there's effectively no other gas in the steam, because dissolved air in the boiler's feedwater (particularly oxygen and carbon dioxide) has to be removed to prevent corrosion. To that end, water going into the boiler is first run through a deaerator, to remove any air that dissolved in the water as it came through the condensor.

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