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Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

antipolygraph.org

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Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#51

Post by AndrewStephens »

Animats wrote: post #31

I went through national-security polygraph exams twice, and they were no big deal. Filling out SF-86 (which used to start "List all residences from birth"), now that's a hassle. In my aerospace company days, almost everything I did was unclassified, but I was put through the mill of getting higher level security clearances so I could be assigned to classified projects. Fortunately, I never was.

> I was put through the mill of getting higher level security clearances so I could be assigned to classified projects. Fortunately, I never was.

Sure was lucky you didn’t work on any of those classified projects -

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#52

Post by c22 »

tptacek wrote: post #40
ddtaylor wrote: post #33

I watched at Derbycon multiple times someone that could make a polygraph test do whatever he wanted, otherwise he was a murderer that murdered himself and it all happened before he was born. The test was being administered by a long time veteran polygraph operator who had recently retired.

I don't know what that means, because a polygraph by design tells the polygrapher whatever they want it to.

If the demonstration was performed in some blinded protocol then perhaps there was more room for ambiguity in the results than usual.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#53

Post by 13415 »

That's an old classic, should have 2018 in the headline but the site is much older. Some people hate it because they're afraid that knowing the site might count as preparation and might make them fail their polygraph exam.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#54

Post by relaxing »

jMyles wrote: post #37
Animats wrote: post #31

I went through national-security polygraph exams twice, and they were no big deal. Filling out SF-86 (which used to start "List all residences from birth"), now that's a hassle. In my aerospace company days, almost everything I did was unclassified, but I was put through the mill of getting higher level security clearances so I could be assigned to classified projects. Fortunately, I never was.

I'm curious about how "residence" is defined for this purpose (and for many purposes). Often it's just presumed that people will know what a "residence" is, but I've lived many years of my life houseless, including on a skoolie. I never know what to say about my residence. Even now, I own a house, but I don't consider it my home, at least not all the time. Have a specific "residence" presumes that there's one set of…

90 days living there is the threshold.

You wouldn’t make a good candidate for a national security job, not that it sounds like you want to be. Investigators would want to know who you’d been associating with at all those different places, and tracking it all down would take a long time ( the wait for the investigation can be years, the period during which you’d be unhireable for the job you were going after.)

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#55

Post by delichon »

singleshot_ wrote: post #39

> but I wondered why a petty thief thought she could get into the Agency. It’s reassuring to know no one at the CIA has ever done anything wrong, like stealing fifty dollars.

Knowing someone had committed petty theft is at least a red flag. I can't blame an employer for considering it disqualifying when they have many equally qualified candidates without it. Even for a burger flipper, let alone a secret agent.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#56

Post by XorNot »

b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #48

I'm always surprised to hear that a government agency administers polygraph tests in something as serious as hiring but then I remember the CIA also spent millions of dollars trying to develop telekinetic assassins and train clairvoyants to spy on the Kremlin.

That research was oriented towards making sure it wasn't possible though.

You're saying "of course it isn't" - but how do you know that?

At the time the Soviets had the same sort of projects. So until you're sure it's not possible, the potential capability is an enormous threat if it is.

How they went about that research is where the waste creeps in.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#57

Post by tokenless »

ifh-hn wrote: post #9

I've no idea why I read to the end of that, seems like a long ramble, I kept expecting something to happen and it never did.

He is a good writer. I also read to end and my attention span isn't good! I think the switching between what happened, what he felt and just the plain "daily WTF" rediculousness of the situations is what kept me locked in.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#58

Post by tokenless »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #24
ifh-hn wrote: post #9

I've no idea why I read to the end of that, seems like a long ramble, I kept expecting something to happen and it never did.

tl;dr: polygraphs aren't reliable and can be misused?

And they are performed interrogation style but cannot be refused without risking your career.

OTOH, someone arrested can (probably should?) refuse.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#59

Post by Arainach »

I applied for an internship with the NSA. My understanding of the process (years ago, pre-Snowden) was that they did a pass on your resume (I can't recall if there was even a phone screen), then they started background checks and if there were N internships the first N people to pass the security clearance were selected.

They went through the standard stuff, interviewing my neighbors, etc. Then they flew me to Fort Meade for a polygraph. This article matches my experiences well - the interviewers latched on to arbitrary accusations and threw them at you over and over. I walked out feeling absolutely miserable and the examiner still claiming I was hiding past crimes and drug use (nope, I confessed to everything all the way down to grabbing coins out of the fountain at the mall when I was quite young). My interviewer said some large percentage of people fail their first and most pass the second.

...except there was no second, because shortly after I passed an interview and got an internship at a large tech company that paid significantly more and didn't require me to take a polygraph. No regrets on that decision.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#60

Post by jMyles »

relaxing wrote: post #54
jMyles wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious about how "residence" is defined for this purpose (and for many purposes). Often it's just presumed that people will know what a "residence" is, but I've lived many years of my life houseless, including on a skoolie. I never know what to say about my residence. Even now, I own a house, but I don't consider it my home, at least not all the time. Have a specific "residence" presumes that there's one set of…

90 days living there is the threshold. You wouldn’t make a good candidate for a national security job, not that it sounds like you want to be. Investigators would want to know who you’d been associating with at all those different places, and tracking it all down would take a long time ( the wait for the investigation can be years, the period during which you’d be unhireable for the job you were going after.)

...I think I'd make a great candidate for a national security job, if the job meant the security of the nation rather than the security of the state.

But I take your point of course. :-)

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