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Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

tailscale.com

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Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#51

Post by nickburns »

tda wrote: post #2

I just set this up the other day, and I got my ping to drop from 16 to 10ms, and my bandwidth tripled, when connecting from a remote natted site to a matter desktop my house. Together with Moonlight/Sunshine I can now play Windows games on my Linux desktop from my MacBook, with 50mbps/10ms streaming. So far so good! Not a single port forwarded, I just set my router up as peer node.

Neat use case. But in fairness, you've simply 'offloaded' NAT traversal/port forwarding to automagic helper protocols over which you have no control even if you wanted it.

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#52

Post by ErneX »

sureglymop wrote: post #21
nsbk wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point Tailscale is working so well and I'm so happy with it that I'm afraid it's time to start migrating to Headscale [0] for my home network. The rag pull may just be too painful otherwise! [0]: https://headscale.net/

I've been smoothly running headscale on a hetzner vps for many months now. Works without issues (note that it does lack some features still).

Same here.

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#54

Post by iso1631 »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #46
behnamoh wrote: post #3

How does Tailscale make money? I really like their service but I'm worried about a rug pull in the future. Has anyone tried alternative FOSS solutions? Also, sometimes it seems like I get rate limited on Tailscale. Has anyone had that experience? This usually happens with multiple SSH connections at the same time.

Wouldn't the FOSS alternative be to simply use wireguard?

Most posters on HN barely know what a subnet is so it's not that simple

There's two key features

1) Tunnel management

Tailscale will configure your p2p tunnels itself - if you have 10 devices, to do that yourself you'd have to manage 90 tunnels. Add another device and that goes upto 100. Remove a device and you have 9 other devices to update.

2) Firewall punching

They provide an orchestration system which allows two devices both behind a nat or stateful firewall to communicate with each other without having to open holes in the firewall (because most firewalls will allow "established" connections - including measuring established UDP as "packet went from ipa:porta to ipb:portb 'outbound', thus until a timeout period any traffic from ipb:portb to ipa:porta will be let through (and natted as appropriate)".

The orchestration sends traffic from ipa to ipb and ipb to ipa on known ports at the same time so both firewalls think the traffic is established. For nats which do source-port scrambling it uses the birthday paradox to get a matching stream.

I believe you can run a similar headend using "headscale" yourself.

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#55

Post by NoiseBert69 »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #46
behnamoh wrote: post #3

How does Tailscale make money? I really like their service but I'm worried about a rug pull in the future. Has anyone tried alternative FOSS solutions? Also, sometimes it seems like I get rate limited on Tailscale. Has anyone had that experience? This usually happens with multiple SSH connections at the same time.

Wouldn't the FOSS alternative be to simply use wireguard?

Yes and no. It's much manual work to get WG to behave like Tailscale.

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#56

Post by allthetime »

shj2105 wrote: post #53

I’m so confused. What is the difference between a peer relay and a DERP server that is self hosted?

Talking out my ass, but as with all things Tailscale, not much, aside from easier to use / less manual setup.

Nothing they do was impossible before, but their big win is making world wide private networking easy and accessible.

I’ve been on-boarding my friends who have their own local media servers setup so we can all share/stream content from each other.

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#57

Post by omnimus »

tomxor wrote: post #36
prodigycorp wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love tailscale but you may be right, it's entering that acquisition zone that'll inevitably bum everyone out. Salesforce, stay away from it!

I have the same fears. Last year they have publicly stated they are not interested in acquisition [0] > Pennarun confirmed the company had been approached by potential acquirers, but told BetaKit that the company intends to grow as a private company and work towards an initial public offering (IPO). > “Tailscale intends to remain independent and we are on a likely IPO track, although any IPO is several years out,” Pe…

Just note i doubt Tailscale were first popular vpn manager as i remember many hobby users are Zerotier converts and also much older products like Hamachi.

Tailscale have build great product around wireguard (which is quite young) and they have great marketing and docs. But they are hardly first VPN service - they might not even be the most popular one.

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#58

Post by dagi3d »

eleventyseven wrote: post #45
riknos314 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tl;Dr here is that the cost to them of operating the free tier is lower than what they estimate their Customer Acquisition Cost would be without a free tier, so the free tier generates better leads/conversions to their paid products at a lower cost than traditional sales and marketing. As long as these economics continue to hold they'd be stupid to discontinue the free tier.

But it isn't 'economics' as there is no actual data or science here, just a wild guess about what customer acquisition might currently cost. All it takes to rug pull is some exec speculating that 'the economics' have changed.

Acquisition cost can definitely be calculated. I'm pretty sure they know how many customers do convert into paying users from their free tier and how much does it cost to get them through other channels

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#59

Post by Suffocate5100 »

behnamoh wrote: post #3

How does Tailscale make money? I really like their service but I'm worried about a rug pull in the future. Has anyone tried alternative FOSS solutions? Also, sometimes it seems like I get rate limited on Tailscale. Has anyone had that experience? This usually happens with multiple SSH connections at the same time.

Nebula is what we use. It's definitely not as convenient, but it's 100% self-ownable.

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#60

Post by allthetime »

behnamoh wrote: post #3

How does Tailscale make money? I really like their service but I'm worried about a rug pull in the future. Has anyone tried alternative FOSS solutions? Also, sometimes it seems like I get rate limited on Tailscale. Has anyone had that experience? This usually happens with multiple SSH connections at the same time.

Facilitating peer to peer connections is cheap.

Just like cloudflare, a healthy free offering makes lots of happy/loyal users. Some of those users have business needs / use for the paid features and support.

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