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Portugal: The First Global Empire (2015)

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Re: Portugal: The First Global Empire (2015)

#51
post #45
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but every time that I spend some time in Portuguese cities, I feel just bad What do you mean? (Asking this as a Portuguese guy who really doesn't feel at home back there any more)

The Chinese selling Portuguese souvenirs made in China?

A lot of which are Sino-Portuguese from Macau that moved (or their families moved) after Macau was returned to China...

Re: Portugal: The First Global Empire (2015)

#54
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the comparison with the Netherlands is generally appropriate, but we must recognize that what they did in Brazil was exceptional (meaning not comparable to their former possessions in Asia and Africa, a difference from the mere trading nodes) and the NL never did achieve anything like it. The Portuguese managed to maintain territorial integrity and make their religion and language dominate it entirely, in wha…

Didn’t the Dutch basically take over the Portuguese trading empire from them?

Yes, to a significant but not total degree. Some of those losses were later recouped by Portugal (current Northeastern Brazil and Angola).

I think that the losses in Asia were more lasting, or permanent.

Re: Portugal: The First Global Empire (2015)

#55
post #49

Technically, also the last global empire. Macau wasn't returned to China until 1999. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handover_of_Macau

France and USA still have colonies around the world. So no, not the last.

Are those considered colonies or territories?

Re: Portugal: The First Global Empire (2015)

#56
post #50

When xenophobia is a useful social defence : > They were most successful in Japan, creating about 300,000 converts until their activities induced a wave of xenophobia and they were either expelled or killed. I am immensely glad that Japan was not colonised early on like the Philippines to their south unfortunately was.

The peak of Japanese xenophobia in the 1930s however was conversely very unfortunate for everyone nearby.

Re: Portugal: The First Global Empire (2015)

#57
post #24

Spain was the first globalization, not Portugal. The article forgets to mention two key elements: 1) The Manila galeon[1], the first trading route connecting Europe, America and Asia. This was the first trully global trade route (Portugual never established a trans-Pacific route). 2) The Real de a Ocho[2], the first global currency, used virtually everywhere including the US until the modern dollar replaced it in 185…

[deleted]

Re: Portugal: The First Global Empire (2015)

#58
post #56
post #50

When xenophobia is a useful social defence : > They were most successful in Japan, creating about 300,000 converts until their activities induced a wave of xenophobia and they were either expelled or killed. I am immensely glad that Japan was not colonised early on like the Philippines to their south unfortunately was.

The peak of Japanese xenophobia in the 1930s however was conversely very unfortunate for everyone nearby.

I'm very aware, of course, of the horrific crimes that Japan carried out in China and other countries in the 1930s but that is not xenophobia. People going outside their country (to do whatever) are not affected by xenophobia. Xenophobia is a fear of people from outside the country, within that country.

Native cultures (however you want to define that) have always shown some curiousity and openness to visitors from outside the culture but that is balanced by some level of xenophobia too, that ramps up as people inside the culture feel that they are being overwhelmed. Both aspects of openness and shutting out are natural traits in any homogenous culture.

Re: Portugal: The First Global Empire (2015)

#59
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the comparison with the Netherlands is generally appropriate, but we must recognize that what they did in Brazil was exceptional (meaning not comparable to their former possessions in Asia and Africa, a difference from the mere trading nodes) and the NL never did achieve anything like it. The Portuguese managed to maintain territorial integrity and make their religion and language dominate it entirely, in wha…

> The Portuguese Empire did exist but AFAIK never did aspire to world hegemony like the U.K Every time I meet a laid back, easy going and kind Portuguese person — which is most of them — I always think that explains their relatively unambitious world domination plans.

The Portuguese sometimes describe themselves as the "povo de brandos costumes" (people of mild customs).

Re: Portugal: The First Global Empire (2015)

#60
post #30
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This was the first trully global trade route (Portugual never established a trans-Pacific route). You're saying because Portugal traded with Asia through the wrong ocean, it wasn't global? Seems like an odd metric.

No, I'm sayng that Portugal never closed the circuit that led to a global trade route. They built a line between Europe and Asia, but Asia and America remained economically disconnected. It was that loop that Spain closed that enabled a global economy.

There was nothing in the Americas as trade partners, in the meanwhile Portugal was trading with Africa, India and Asia (including Japan) in regular routes. Your point is moot.
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