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Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

wero-wallet.eu

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Re: Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

#51

Post by quotz »

pbreit wrote: post #42
Freak_NL wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really simple. You're in the Netherlands, and you are going to buy something in an on-line store. Steam perhaps, or any Dutch retailer. You put the game in your Steam cart, and go to pay. You select Ideal (which Steam provides as an option), you pick your bank, and you follow the on-screen instructions (but you probably do that pretty much automatically). Usually that means scanning a QR code with your bank app…

How is that better than a card payment? Cards are accepted by far more merchants, have dispute rights, are inexpensive (in Europe) to process, supported by Apple & Google Pay, superior checkout experience, etc.

Cards are reliant on US companies -> Visa / Mastercard. The European Payment Initiative wants to remove reliance on the US. Perhaps there can be a ECB payment rail/network that would support cardlike payments too.

Re: Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

#52

Post by holgerschurig »

dadoum wrote: post #18

Can anyone explain me exactly why it is a suitable alternative to VISA and Mastercard (and why people were waiting for it). I am trying to understand the full picture here, so multiple things come to my mind. First, SEPA instant payments already exist and are really instant up to a certain amount, and I am guessing that Wero builds on top of that a sort of identity layer, to sidestep the whole IBAN thing. But it is l…

Well, Visa and Mastercard are expensive and suck. The shop always has to pay them some percentage for a transaction. That adds up.

For decades, european countries like Netherlands or German had cheaper alternatives, e.g. in Germany the old "EC Card" and now "girocard". That costs a shop just a fixed amount of cent... and a very low amount.

(That is BTW one of THE reasons why US travellers won't see "Credit cards accepted" in every store ... our alternatives are just cheaper, so the market decided)

Also, Visa and Mastercard as US companies. So they are sniffing on all european transactions.

And it happened more than once that US companies tried to execute bullshit US laws in Europe. Example: there was once an german online shop that sold cuban cigars. Eventually the US website that hosted the shop said "Oh, that's not allowed" --- despite it perfectly legal by german law. And they didn't just delete this cuban cigars, they disabled the whole shop, with IIRC 20000 EUR positive balance. And the shop owner didn't even get his money, since their customer service sucked and was only automated response and untrained indian call center clerks.

So no, we cannot really depend on US services. They are expensive, they customer service sucks, they are sniffing either directly or let the NSA sniff everything.

And, bank-wise the USA seems to be some decades back (not online-bank-wise!). I mean, they still have pay cheques? Not direct bank transfers? Shudder. No wonder that, if they have no alternatives, they think everything must be Visa or Mastercard operated.

Re: Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

#53

Post by Baguette5242 »

It’s not like this issue had been solved like… what… 15 freaking years ago in China.

The fact that this is shown as a « big step forward » is a a great example of how much the EU is lagging behind. It’s honestly quite sad.

Anyway, let’s wait and see, I already used Wero, it works OK, I don’t really get what the difference is between this and instant bank transfers but again, let’s wait and see.

Re: Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

#54

Post by microtonal »

zb3 wrote: post #15
mzajc wrote: post #7

From what I've gathered, they've decided to make this completely unusable without a Google- or Apple-approved smartphone. Horrible! Are individual banks even allowed to make that an option for clients? Though even if they are, I doubt any will. I would LOVE a PayPal alternative, but this is just not it. -- From https://support.wero-wallet.eu/hc/en-us/articles/25599074240... : > It is not possible to use Wero via a we…

Ah, so this EU wallet is only usable after US companies bless my device? Outstanding move!

This is not a wallet (the name is a bit confusing). Wero (like iDEAL, which it is partly based on), is an online payment system directly backed by your bank account. This is an app that uses the Wero system for doing P2P payments (like Tikkie in The Netherlands).

Most likely, Wero (like iDEAL) will also support alternative apps for P2P payments.

Also, Wero will support in-store payments in the future, making Google Pay/Apple Pay unnecessary [1] unnecessary, which is a big win.

[1] Strictly spoken it's unnecessary now as well, but then each bank needs to implement its own NFC app and most simply opt foor Google/Apple Pay.

Re: Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

#55

Post by cyberpunk »

mzajc wrote: post #49
cyberpunk wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a regulatory thing, devices used for instant payments should be somehow attested and be authenticated (or be a physical device the bank issued e.g your card). It’s a difficult thing, we don’t want to have to force smartphone choices but the number of users without one these devices is so vanishingly small it’s very difficult to change the legislation in order to support them too. I think the happy middle grou…

Then I'll unfortunately have to continue paying the PayPal tax - apparently they have no issues running in any browser of my choice. > I think the happy middle ground is making this system also work with bank issued cards. That wouldn't let me pay online.

That’s authenticated and 2fa’d, so it doesn’t have the same use case as a tap to pay system, though. I’m not defending these choices, but there is a reality here.

Re: Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

#56

Post by breisa »

mzajc wrote: post #44
microtonal wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as it works on a degoogled Android phone I'm fine with it. Maybe someone in the supported countries with an GraphenOS or /e/OS phone can confirm? Edit: for some banks it will just forward to the bank's app. So most likely it works as long as your bank supports degoogled Android, similar to how iDEAL + Tikkie works on degoogled Android with most Dutch banks.

I should've been clearer - by Google-approved, I meant that your device has to pass Google's remote attestation scheme. From https://support.wero-wallet.eu/hc/en-us/articles/25599098295... : > I’m seeing this error message: "Your device does not meet our security requirements". > /../ If the operating system is an Android variant (also called a 'custom ROM'), such as LineageOS or Pixel Experience, then the wero app c…

The thing is, with most banks you aren't even allowed to use the Wero app that has this play integrity restriction. The banks integrate Wero directly into their own apps. So its mostly up to your bank.

Re: Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

#57

Post by cyberpunk »

drnick1 wrote: post #47
cyberpunk wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a regulatory thing, devices used for instant payments should be somehow attested and be authenticated (or be a physical device the bank issued e.g your card). It’s a difficult thing, we don’t want to have to force smartphone choices but the number of users without one these devices is so vanishingly small it’s very difficult to change the legislation in order to support them too. I think the happy middle grou…

> we don’t want to have to force smartphone choices but the number of users without one these devices is so vanishingly small You are missing the point. The issue is that once the "vanishingly small" number of alternatives disappears, users will be completely trapped, and Google and Apple will then free to abuse that position of power (they already do). Worse, since power is centralized, it is very easy for governmen…

Aren’t your problems solved by carrying a bit of plastic issues by your bank? Why isn’t that enough?

Re: Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

#58

Post by Onavo »

Baguette5242 wrote: post #53

It’s not like this issue had been solved like… what… 15 freaking years ago in China. The fact that this is shown as a « big step forward » is a a great example of how much the EU is lagging behind. It’s honestly quite sad. Anyway, let’s wait and see, I already used Wero, it works OK, I don’t really get what the difference is between this and instant bank transfers but again, let’s wait and see.

Hey don't blame Europe, they are hardly an expert on « ̶b̶i̶g̶ ̶s̶t̶e̶p̶ ̶great leaps forward »

Re: Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

#59

Post by kleiba »

mzajc wrote: post #7

From what I've gathered, they've decided to make this completely unusable without a Google- or Apple-approved smartphone. Horrible! Are individual banks even allowed to make that an option for clients? Though even if they are, I doubt any will. I would LOVE a PayPal alternative, but this is just not it. -- From https://support.wero-wallet.eu/hc/en-us/articles/25599074240... : > It is not possible to use Wero via a we…

Oh, awesome, thanks. For someone like me who does not own a phone, this is valuable information. Now I know that I don't have to waste my time looking into this.

Re: Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

#60

Post by drnick1 »

Freak_NL wrote: post #28
dadoum wrote: post #18

Can anyone explain me exactly why it is a suitable alternative to VISA and Mastercard (and why people were waiting for it). I am trying to understand the full picture here, so multiple things come to my mind. First, SEPA instant payments already exist and are really instant up to a certain amount, and I am guessing that Wero builds on top of that a sort of identity layer, to sidestep the whole IBAN thing. But it is l…

It's really simple. You're in the Netherlands, and you are going to buy something in an on-line store. Steam perhaps, or any Dutch retailer. You put the game in your Steam cart, and go to pay. You select Ideal (which Steam provides as an option), you pick your bank, and you follow the on-screen instructions (but you probably do that pretty much automatically). Usually that means scanning a QR code with your bank app…

> Usually that means scanning a QR code with your bank app on your smartphone where you confirm the amount and recipient, but you can use a physical card reader with your debit card for an OTP

This seems to be mobile-centric system that essentially requires a cell phone, and probably one blessed by Google or Apple. The app will probably leak a huge amount of meta data, far more than a credit card (especially a privacy-oriented prepaid one). This kind of "solution" is dead on arrival as far as I am concerned.

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