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Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)

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Re: Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)

#51

Post by linkage »

logancbrown wrote: post #36
testing22321 wrote: post #5

Because the chicken tax keeps out great vehicles so the US automakers don’t have to compete. The hilux and 79 landcruiser are run of the mill workhorses in virtually every country in the world except the US and Canada. They run rings around the Tacoma and tundra. Tariffs and old world protectionism like the chicken tax are keeping the US automakers on life support, but they’re all doomed - they’re not even trying to…

The "protectionism" you cite is due to crash regulation and emissions standards.

This is unadulterated cope.

America has 40% more traffic fatalities per km driven than the European Union and has less stringent emissions standards (especially for the Hilux's category, which is actually why giant SUVs became so popular over the years).

The US government doesn't even bother with these spurious pretexts anymore. They openly admit that they want to coddle local automakers to ensure that the government has a supply chain of transportation vehicles in wartime. It's quite literally socialism for the entire American auto sector.

Re: Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)

#52

Post by bluGill »

avidiax wrote: post #7

While I don't think it would prevent our troops from having foreign-produced trucks in theater, we can't affordably procure such trucks thanks to the Chicken Tax. I would also guess that giving a DoD contract to Toyota for a truck that may not be registrable in the US would also face institutional resistance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

The military has an incentive to ensure there are plenty of Americans who know how to design and manufacture things. A truck and a tank have a lot in common - if war breaks out we want the ability to take people of of trucks and get them making things the military needs.

This is the same reason the Navy has for building ships in the US even though they can be done other places cheaper.

Re: Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)

#53

Post by mjhay »

gowld wrote: post #29
avidiax wrote: post #7

While I don't think it would prevent our troops from having foreign-produced trucks in theater, we can't affordably procure such trucks thanks to the Chicken Tax. I would also guess that giving a DoD contract to Toyota for a truck that may not be registrable in the US would also face institutional resistance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

25% tariff isn't a roadblock for military spending.

Regarding Western military procurement,

“We have such sights to show you!”

Re: Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)

#54

Post by rootusrootus »

avidiax wrote: post #7

While I don't think it would prevent our troops from having foreign-produced trucks in theater, we can't affordably procure such trucks thanks to the Chicken Tax. I would also guess that giving a DoD contract to Toyota for a truck that may not be registrable in the US would also face institutional resistance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

Toyota has factories in the US where they produce pickups. They could build the Hilux here if they thought it would do well in the market.

Re: Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)

#55

Post by TitaRusell »

taniks1618 wrote: post #2

I wish it was easy and simple to buy the Hilux in America. Many amazing foreign vehicles have been banned or heavily taxed by the Federal Government to prevent competition.

America will become like East Germany and the Trabant.

And thanks to Trump's antics Detroit is losing the Mexican and Canadian markets...

Re: Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)

#56

Post by rootusrootus »

taniks1618 wrote: post #2

I wish it was easy and simple to buy the Hilux in America. Many amazing foreign vehicles have been banned or heavily taxed by the Federal Government to prevent competition.

Toyota must not think it is that amazing, else they would use their pickup factory in Texas to make Hilux's to sell here.

Re: Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)

#57

Post by einpoklum »

> ISIS may have acquired Toyota Hilux vehicles thanks to the perpetual cycle of U.S. involvement in Foreign Military Sales with the Middle East

No surprises there. A lot of ISIS' actual weaponry was stuff the US had equipped the crony Iraqi military with, and was just picked up by ISIS when the Iraqi soldiers retreated - like a weapons cache in a computer game: Move over the building and your ammo slider goes up magically.

Re: Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)

#58

Post by bluGill »

conductr wrote: post #50
the__alchemist wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Cheap + reliable - Parts for maintenance easy to come by - Strong enough to mount an 50 cal in the back You might have a mix of government owned vehicles, and ones rented from the local economy. You might be driving Hiluxes to work, and observing ISIS or partner forces using the same model as fighting vehicles.

Is the mounting problem even real? I’ve shot a 50 cal rifle unmounted and I’d venture to say it could be mounted to anything. It’s mainly for ergonomic / accuracy / rapid fire stability and doesn’t need significant structural support. You could probably mount it to an ATV if you wanted to.

Sort of. A truck has a frame that you can drill a hole in and bolt the thing to. Simple and easy.

A typical uni-body car is most than strong enough for the weight, but there is likely no place where the sheet metal is strong enough to support the bolt. You can make it work if you want, but it requires a more complex mounting system. (of course a truck has a nice open bed which has other advantages for mounting a gun - the typical car doesn't have a good place to mount the gun even if you build the mounting system).

ATVs can carry the weight, but finding a place to put the bolts will be a pain.

Re: Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)

#59

Post by stinkbeetle »

cma256 wrote: post #40
netsharc wrote: post #17

Seems like the question is never answered. There's a lot of how the trucks get there, but not why they're better. (I skimmed it, the writing has too much emotional bait of "Look how evil they are! Don't forget, we're the good guys!"). Maybe it's survivor bias, the ones that are crap have been blown up by a Hellfire shot by a drone..

I can tell you precisely why foreign Toyotas (especially certain models) are more reliable that whats typically sold in the US. No electronics and parts which operate based on physics (pressure, gravity, etc). Both of these decisions lend themselves to a simple engine compartment and repairability. In the US, you can buy a five-speed 4runner which is about the simplest engine available on the market. Has all the bene…

The V8 in the 70 series landcruiser uses computer controlled electronic injection. It also has other electronic / electro-mechanical systems like ABS and airbags.

Re: Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)

#60

Post by mywittyname »

taniks1618 wrote: post #2

I wish it was easy and simple to buy the Hilux in America. Many amazing foreign vehicles have been banned or heavily taxed by the Federal Government to prevent competition.

The Hilux isn't "banned" from the USA. Toyota can federalize it and sell it here at any time. Toyota doesn't bring it here because we have the Tacoma - a truck designed to be more inline with American consumer tastes.

If Toyota wanted to, they could readily start manufacturing Hiluxes in Mexico and importing them into the USA. Presumably, the reason they don't do this is because Americans hate small pickup trucks. Every single truck on sale in the USDM sells better in larger footprint spec.

There's maybe 20k American who are willing to buy a new truck with the wheelbase the size of a Mustang (smallest Hilux). Even small BoF SUVs have the same problem. Take the FJ Cruiser, despite being a cult classic, it sold terribly in the USA, likely due to being too small.

Plus, they are expensive. In Australia, the cheapest non-work-spec Hilux trim is ~$55k - which is like $38kUSD. A Tacoma starts cheaper than that and is much larger.

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