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How to effectively write quality code with AI

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Re: How to effectively write quality code with AI

#51

Post by skydhash »

frankc wrote: post #36
jeppester wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's also how I feel. I think you have every right to doubt those telling us that they run 5 agents to generate a new SAAS-product while they are sipping latté in a bar. To work like that I believe you'll have to let go of really digging into the code, which in my experience is needed if want good quality. Yet I think coding agents can be quite a useful help for some of the trivial, but time consuming chores. For i…

I think we really need to have a serious think of what is "good quality" in the age of coding agents. A lot of the effort we put into maintaining quality has to do with maintainability, readability etc. But is it relevant if the code isn't for humans? What is good for a human is not what is good for an AI necessarily (not to say there is no overlap). I think there are clearly measurable things we can agree still appl…

You can’t drop anything as long as a programmer is expected to edit the source code directly. Good luck investigating a bug when the code is unclear semantically, or updating a piece correctly when you’re not really sure it’s the only instance.

Re: How to effectively write quality code with AI

#52

Post by tjr »

skydhash wrote: post #51
frankc wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we really need to have a serious think of what is "good quality" in the age of coding agents. A lot of the effort we put into maintaining quality has to do with maintainability, readability etc. But is it relevant if the code isn't for humans? What is good for a human is not what is good for an AI necessarily (not to say there is no overlap). I think there are clearly measurable things we can agree still appl…

You can’t drop anything as long as a programmer is expected to edit the source code directly. Good luck investigating a bug when the code is unclear semantically, or updating a piece correctly when you’re not really sure it’s the only instance.

I think that's the question. Is a programmer expected to ever touch the source code? Or will AI -- and AI alone -- update the code that it generated?

Not entirely unlike other code generation mechanisms, such as tools for generating HTML based on a graphical design. A human could edit that, but it may not have been the intent. The intent was that, if you want a change, go back to the GUI editor and regenerate the HTML.

Re: How to effectively write quality code with AI

#53

Post by computerex »

einpoklum wrote: post #44
computerex wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you be specific? You didn't provide any constructive feedback, whatsoever.

The article did not provide a constructive suggestion on how to write quality code, either. Nor even empirical proof in the form of quality code written by LLMs/agents via the application of those principles.

Yes it did, it provided 12 things that the author asserts helps produce quality code. Feel free to address the content with something productive.

Re: How to effectively write quality code with AI

#54

Post by falloutx »

whynotminot wrote: post #17
Akranazon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, you are really missing out of the biggest revolution of my life. This is the opinion of someone who has not tried to use Claude Code, in a brand new project with full permissions enabled, and with a model from the last 3 months.

This is a fading but common sentiment on hacker news. There’s a lot of engineers who will refuse to wake up to the revolution happening in front of them. I get it. The denialism is a deeply human response.

Its only revolutionary if you think engineers were slow before or software was not being delivered fast enough. Its revolutionary for some people sure, but everyone is in a different situation, so one man's trash can be other man's treasure. Most people are treading both paths as automation threatens their livelihood and work they loved, also still not able to understand why would people pay to companies that are actively trying to convince your employer that your job is worthless.

Even If I like this tech, I still dont want to support the companies who make it. Yet to pay a cent to these companies, still using the credits given to me by my employer.

Re: How to effectively write quality code with AI

#55

Post by jweir »

Remember having to write detailed specs before coding? Then folks realized it was faster and easier to skip the specs and write the code? So now are we back to where we were?

One of the problems with writing detailed specs is it means you understand the problem, but often the problem is not understand - but you learn to understand it through coding and testing.

So where are we now?

Re: How to effectively write quality code with AI

#56

Post by palmotea »

jeppester wrote: post #8
OptionOfT wrote: post #2

I wonder at the end of this if it's the still worth the risk? A lot of how I form my thoughts is driven by writing code, and seeing it on screen, running into its limitations. Maybe it's the kind of work I'm doing, or maybe I just suck, but the code to me is a forcing mechanism into ironing out the details, and I don't get that when I'm writing a specification.

That's also how I feel. I think you have every right to doubt those telling us that they run 5 agents to generate a new SAAS-product while they are sipping latté in a bar. To work like that I believe you'll have to let go of really digging into the code, which in my experience is needed if want good quality. Yet I think coding agents can be quite a useful help for some of the trivial, but time consuming chores. For i…

> I think you have every right to doubt those telling us that they run 5 agents to generate a new SAAS-product while they are sipping latté in a bar. To work like that I believe you'll have to let go of really digging into the code, which in my experience is needed if want good quality.

Also we live in a capitalist society. The boss will soon ask: "Why the fuck am I paying you to sip a latte in a bar? While am machine does your work? Use all your time to make money for me, or you're fired."

AI just means more output will be expected of you, and they'll keep pushing you to work as hard as you can.

Re: How to effectively write quality code with AI

#58

Post by whynotminot »

falloutx wrote: post #54
whynotminot wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fading but common sentiment on hacker news. There’s a lot of engineers who will refuse to wake up to the revolution happening in front of them. I get it. The denialism is a deeply human response.

Its only revolutionary if you think engineers were slow before or software was not being delivered fast enough. Its revolutionary for some people sure, but everyone is in a different situation, so one man's trash can be other man's treasure. Most people are treading both paths as automation threatens their livelihood and work they loved, also still not able to understand why would people pay to companies that are act…

Of course software hasn’t been delivered fast enough. There is so so so much of the world that still needs high quality software.

Re: How to effectively write quality code with AI

#59

Post by CTDOCodebases »

agumonkey wrote: post #11
OptionOfT wrote: post #2

I wonder at the end of this if it's the still worth the risk? A lot of how I form my thoughts is driven by writing code, and seeing it on screen, running into its limitations. Maybe it's the kind of work I'm doing, or maybe I just suck, but the code to me is a forcing mechanism into ironing out the details, and I don't get that when I'm writing a specification.

I second this. This* is the matter against which we form understanding. This here is the work at hand, our own notes, discussions we have with people, the silent walk where our brain kinda process errors and ideas .. it's always been like this since i was a kid, playing with construction toys. I never ever wanted somebody to play while I wait to evaluate if it fits my desires. Desires that often come from playing. Ou…

I wonder over the long term how programmers are going to maintain the proficiency to read and edit the code that the LLM produces.

Re: How to effectively write quality code with AI

#60

Post by agumonkey »

CTDOCodebases wrote: post #59
agumonkey wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second this. This* is the matter against which we form understanding. This here is the work at hand, our own notes, discussions we have with people, the silent walk where our brain kinda process errors and ideas .. it's always been like this since i was a kid, playing with construction toys. I never ever wanted somebody to play while I wait to evaluate if it fits my desires. Desires that often come from playing. Ou…

I wonder over the long term how programmers are going to maintain the proficiency to read and edit the code that the LLM produces.

Personally I planned to allocate weekly challenges to stay sharp.
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