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We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

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Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#51

Post by KellyCriterion »

KellyCriterion wrote: post #31
simfoo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I read those reports I can't help but wonder who they are actually asking. I'm definitely in a bubble working in Munich and either for US subsidiaries or at least close to them (automotive, ai, robotics, aerospace and others) - but it's a pretty big bubble because it's easily thousands of engineers within one or two hops. And we all make north of 100k€! No-one with more than 5-10 years of experience would ac…

Want a bet? Loose your job right now and you wont see this 100k+ for a veryyyyy looooong time. People are taking cuts of 50% just to get any employment.

Ah getting downvoted by someone who is very likely not looking for a job currently in Germany? :-D

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#52

Post by blell »

barbazoo wrote: post #49
blell wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t worry, the situation will drastically improve with the new plan of importing thousands of Indians into the EU.

> Don’t worry, the situation will drastically improve with the new plan of importing thousands of Indians into the EU. You mean the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India%E2%80%93European_Union_F... ? What industry are these “thousands of jobs” in exactly?

Ask Canada.

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#53

Post by barbazoo »

blell wrote: post #52
barbazoo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don’t worry, the situation will drastically improve with the new plan of importing thousands of Indians into the EU. You mean the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India%E2%80%93European_Union_F... ? What industry are these “thousands of jobs” in exactly?

Ask Canada.

> Ask Canada.

Canada, where immigrants came in under various immigration programs? As far as I know Canada and India don't have a trade agreement comparable to the one India has no with the EU. Hopefully one day. Apples to Oranges comparison though I think.

(I'm aware of companies abusing the LMIA system and I'm not saying that this or that level of immigration is sustainable)

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#54

Post by rockyj »

deng wrote: post #37
rockyj wrote: post #3

Yeah, the numbers in Germany are not so rosy. If these numbers are true, we are looking at - - An "average" salary of around 65K / year - This after (an average of) 5-6 rounds of interviews - 6 months of "probation", with only 2 weeks of notice - And all after 4-6 years of degree/s and 4-5 years of experience (so around 10 years of investment) Then after taxation 65K annually means around 3500/month in pocket. Then w…

It's the median salary: 50% of people earn more than 62.4k. 10% earn more than 80k. It's still low compared to the US, but what isn't? For this, you get proper health and unemployment insurance, usually 30 days of paid vacation, up to 6 weeks of sick leave with full salary, up to 10 days to take care of sick children with full salary, paternal leave, the right to work part-time if desired, and so on. I don't know whe…

I agree with you partly. The benefits are great & fairly above international norms. But I do not agree with the "firing protection" anymore. Last year alone I saw thousands let go in Berlin in fairly large organizations like neobanks for example. I myself saw my previous employer let go of 30% of the staff over the year. A simple Google search of - "Berlin IT firings 2025" will give you a picture.

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#55

Post by rockyj »

KellyCriterion wrote: post #51
KellyCriterion wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Want a bet? Loose your job right now and you wont see this 100k+ for a veryyyyy looooong time. People are taking cuts of 50% just to get any employment.

Ah getting downvoted by someone who is very likely not looking for a job currently in Germany? :-D

Yeah, don't get why you were down voted. What reality are people living in and how do I transfer in that timeline

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#56

Post by carlosjobim »

nine_k wrote: post #13
rockyj wrote: post #3

Yeah, the numbers in Germany are not so rosy. If these numbers are true, we are looking at - - An "average" salary of around 65K / year - This after (an average of) 5-6 rounds of interviews - 6 months of "probation", with only 2 weeks of notice - And all after 4-6 years of degree/s and 4-5 years of experience (so around 10 years of investment) Then after taxation 65K annually means around 3500/month in pocket. Then w…

What are some jobs that pay significantly more? Is it easier to be a factory worker? (I suppose factory workers cannot be let go as easily.) Does work in finance, or in medicine, or some other highly educated job pay materially more?

Yes to all of those jobs. If you move from Germany to the United States.

There's a reason why some European countries loosed up to 30% of their population to America-bound emigration.

Consider also that if you're a German, your own country hates you and your very existence. The US doesn't have anything against Germans.

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#57

Post by rockyj »

blell wrote: post #30
rockyj wrote: post #3

Yeah, the numbers in Germany are not so rosy. If these numbers are true, we are looking at - - An "average" salary of around 65K / year - This after (an average of) 5-6 rounds of interviews - 6 months of "probation", with only 2 weeks of notice - And all after 4-6 years of degree/s and 4-5 years of experience (so around 10 years of investment) Then after taxation 65K annually means around 3500/month in pocket. Then w…

Don’t worry, the situation will drastically improve with the new plan of importing thousands of Indians into the EU.

What plan? I do not know what reality people live in. I am an Indian myself, migrated 12 years ago. There are around currently 20000 students from India in Germany. I have talked to a dozen of them in my neighborhood, only 1 in 10 can even find a job post graduation in current market

Proof - https://youtu.be/2x-aQy730Ew?si=y6hKNp9G6TOI_mtT

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#58

Post by mixmastamyk »

rockyj wrote: post #54
deng wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the median salary: 50% of people earn more than 62.4k. 10% earn more than 80k. It's still low compared to the US, but what isn't? For this, you get proper health and unemployment insurance, usually 30 days of paid vacation, up to 6 weeks of sick leave with full salary, up to 10 days to take care of sick children with full salary, paternal leave, the right to work part-time if desired, and so on. I don't know whe…

I agree with you partly. The benefits are great & fairly above international norms. But I do not agree with the "firing protection" anymore. Last year alone I saw thousands let go in Berlin in fairly large organizations like neobanks for example. I myself saw my previous employer let go of 30% of the staff over the year. A simple Google search of - "Berlin IT firings 2025" will give you a picture.

That’s interesting, how does hard-to-fire law combine with a company that needs to have layoffs?

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#60

Post by menaerus »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #58
rockyj wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you partly. The benefits are great & fairly above international norms. But I do not agree with the "firing protection" anymore. Last year alone I saw thousands let go in Berlin in fairly large organizations like neobanks for example. I myself saw my previous employer let go of 30% of the staff over the year. A simple Google search of - "Berlin IT firings 2025" will give you a picture.

That’s interesting, how does hard-to-fire law combine with a company that needs to have layoffs?

I guess it works for companies which are not part of the union?
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