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Automatic Programming

antirez.com

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Re: Automatic Programming

#51

Post by jakkos »

slim wrote: post #36
reidrac wrote: post #20

> Pre-training is, actually, our collective gift that allows many individuals to do things they could otherwise never do, like if we are now linked in a collective mind, in a certain way. Is not a gift if it was stolen. Anyway, in my opinion the code that was generated by the LLM is yours as long as you're responsible for it. When I look at a PR I'm reading the output of a person, independently of the tools that pers…

It is knowledge, it can't be stolen. It is stolen only in the sense of someone gatekeeping knowledge. Which is as a practice, the least we can say, dubious. because is math stolen ? if you stole math to build your knowledge on top of it, you own nothing and can claim to have been stolen yourself

Are you against copyright, patents, and IP in all forms then?

Re: Automatic Programming

#52

Post by aglavine »

AdamN wrote: post #34
dugmartin wrote: post #21

I have 30+ years of industry experience and I've been leaning heavily into spec driven development at work and it is a game changer. I love programming and now I get to program at one level higher: the spec. I spend hours on a spec, working with Claude Code to first generate and iterate on all the requirements, going over the requirements using self-reviews in Claude first using Opus 4.5 and then CoPilot using GPT-5.…

Waterfall can work great when: 1/ the focus is long-term both in terms of knowing that she company can take a few years to get the thing live but also that it will be around for many more years, 2/ the people writing the spec and the code are largely the same people. Agile was really pushing to make sure companies could get software live before they died (number 1) and to remedy the anti-pattern that appeared with nu…

No.

Agile core is the feedback loop. I can't believe people still don't get it. Feedback from reality is always faster than guessing on the air.

Waterfall is never great. The only time when you need something else than Agile is when lives are at stake, you need there formal specifications and rigorous testing.

SDD allows better output than traditional programming. It is similar to waterfall in the sense that the model helps you to write design docs in hours instead of days and take more into account as a result. But the feedback loop is there and it is still the key part in the process.

Re: Automatic Programming

#53

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

sandruso wrote: post #8

> Pre-training is, actually, our collective gift that allows many individuals to do things they could otherwise never do, like if we are now linked in a collective mind, in a certain way. The question is if you can have it all? Can you get faster results and still be growing your skills. Can we 10x the collective mind knowledge with use of AI or we need to spend a lot of time learning the old wayTM to move the indust…

People feel ripped off by AI & products which use AI. So this is the reason why you have to justify the tool use of AI.

Re: Automatic Programming

#54

Post by 9dev »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #4
rvz wrote: post #2

> I'm a programmer, and I use automatic programming. The code I generate in this way is mine. My code, my output, my production. I, and you, can be proud. Disagree. So when there is a bug / outage / error, due to "automatic programming" are you ready to be first in line to accept accountability (the LLM cannot be) when it all goes wrong in production? I do not think that would even be enough or whether this would wor…

>> are you ready to be first in line to accept accountability I'm accountable for the code i push to production. I have all the power and agency in this scenario, so i am the right person to be accountable for what's in my PR / CL.

That is the policy I set up for our team as well—when you push, you declare your absolute responsibility for any changes you made to the repository, regardless of the way they were conceived.

That is really about the least confusing part of the story.

Re: Automatic Programming

#55

Post by slfreference »

margorczynski wrote: post #5

Vibe coding is an idiotic term and it's a shame that it stuck. If I'm a project lead and just giving directions to the devs I'm also "vibe coding"? I guess a large of that is that 1-2 years ago the whole process was much more non-deterministic and actually getting a sensible result much harder.

Sculpt coding??

Sculding??

Rice by any other name??

Re: Automatic Programming

#56

Post by prorez »

Friendly reminder that almost nobody is working this way now. You (reader) don't have to spend 346742356 tokens on that refactor. antirez won't magically swoop in and put your employer out of business with the Perfect Prompt (and accompanying AI blog post). There's a lot of software out there and MoltBook isn't going to spontaneously put your employer out of business either.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking "if I don't heavily adopt Claude Code and agentic flows today I'll be working at Subway tomorrow." There's an unhealthy AI hype cottage industry right now and you aren't beholden to it. Change comes slowly, is unpredictable, and believe it or not writing Redis and linenoise.c doesn't make someone clairvoyant.

Re: Automatic Programming

#57

Post by 9dev »

noodletheworld wrote: post #12

Vibe Engineering. Automatic Programming. “We need to get beyond the arguments of slop vs sophistication..." Everyone seems to want to invent a new word for 'programming with AI' because 'vibe coding' seems to have come to equate to 'being rubbish and writing AI slop'. ...buuuut, it doesn't really matter what you call it does it? If the result is slop, no amount of branding is going to make it not slop. People are not…

That's kind of Salvatore's point though; programming without some kind of AI contribution will become rare over time, like people writing assembly by hand is rare now. So the distinction becomes meaningless.

Re: Automatic Programming

#58

Post by lou1306 »

slim wrote: post #36
reidrac wrote: post #20

> Pre-training is, actually, our collective gift that allows many individuals to do things they could otherwise never do, like if we are now linked in a collective mind, in a certain way. Is not a gift if it was stolen. Anyway, in my opinion the code that was generated by the LLM is yours as long as you're responsible for it. When I look at a PR I'm reading the output of a person, independently of the tools that pers…

It is knowledge, it can't be stolen. It is stolen only in the sense of someone gatekeeping knowledge. Which is as a practice, the least we can say, dubious. because is math stolen ? if you stole math to build your knowledge on top of it, you own nothing and can claim to have been stolen yourself

If you are so adamant about this, why don't you release all your own code in the public domain? Aren't you gatekeeping knowledge too?

Re: Automatic Programming

#59

Post by alecco »

> if vibe coding is the process of producing software without much understanding of what is going on (which has a place, and democratizes software production, so it is totally ok with me)

Strongly disagree. This is a huge waste of currently scarce compute/energy both in generating that broken slop and in running it. It's the main driver for the shortages. And it's getting worse.

I would hate a future without personal computing.

Re: Automatic Programming

#60

Post by rtafs155 »

"When the process is actual software production where you know what is going on, remember: it is the software you are producing. Moreover remember that the pre-training data, while not the only part where the LLM learns (RL has its big weight) was produced by humans, so we are not appropriating something else."

What does that even mean? You are a failed novelist who does not have ideas and is now selling out his fellow programmers because he wants to get richer.

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