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AI Lazyslop and Personal Responsibility

danielsada.tech

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Re: AI Lazyslop and Personal Responsibility

#51
post #19

> Then, I’d get a ping from his manager asking on why am I blocking the review. If you are in a culture like this, you may as well just ship slop. Management wants to break stuff, that is on them.

I've received questions like this from very good, very reasonable, very technically carefully managers. What happens is, Mike complains and tries to throw you under the bus, and the manager reaches out to hear your side of it. You tell them Mike is trying to ship code with a bunch of issues and no tests, and they go back to Mike and tell him that he's the problem and he needs to meet the technical standards enforced…

I have been on both - actually on all three - sorry, make that four - sides.

1. I tried to ship crap and complained to my manager for being blocked. I was young, dumb, in a bad place and generally an asshole. 2. I was the manager being told that some unreasonable idiot from X blocked their progress. I was the unreasonable manager demanding my people to be unblocked. I was without context, had a very bad prior relationship with the other party and an asshole - because no prior bad faith acts were actually behind the block - it was shitty code. 3. I was the manager being asked to help with unblocking. I asked to understand the issue and to actually try to - based on the facts - find a way towards a solution. My report had to refactor. 4. I was the one being asked. Luckily I had prior experience and did this time manage to not become the asshole.

I am glad I had the environments to learn.

Edit: Format.

Re: AI Lazyslop and Personal Responsibility

#53
Lazyslop PRs offload the work to code reviewers while keeping all the benefits to the PR creator.

Now creating a 1600 loc PR is about ten minutes, reviewing it at the very least an hour. Mike submits a bunch of PRs, the rest of the team tries to review it to prevent the slop from causing an outage at night or blowing up the app. Mike is a hero, he really embraced AI, he leveraged it to get 100x productivity.

This works for a while, until everyone realizes that Mike gets the praise, they get reprimanded for not shipping their features fast enough. After a couple of these sour experiences, other developers will follow suit, embrace the slop. Now there is nobody that stops the train wreck. The ones who really cared, left, the ones who cared at least a little gave up, and churn out slop.

Re: AI Lazyslop and Personal Responsibility

#54

If you get a 1600 line PR you just close it and ask them to break it up into reviewable chunks. If your workplace has an issue with that, quit. This was true before AI and will be true after AI.

Some people can write 1-3k lines of good code (incl. tests) in a day when everything is just right. We used to be called 10xers lol. The 1600LOC PR is legit if trust is there, it's really a single change unit, it's not just being thrown over a wall (should have a great PR description and clear, concise commit history).

I automatically block PRs with LLM-generated summaries, commit messages, documentation, etc.

Re: AI Lazyslop and Personal Responsibility

#55

This is consistent with my own observations of LLM-generated code increasing the burden on reviewers. You either review the code carefully, putting more effort into it than the actual original author. Or you approve it without careful review. I feel like the latter is becoming more common. This is basically creating tech debt that will only be realized later by future maintainers

It’s a prisoner’s dilemma, too. The person who commits to giving code review its due diligence is going to end up spending an inordinate amount of time reviewing others’ changes, leaving less time to completing their own assignments. And they’re likely to request a lot of changes, too. That’s socially untenable for most people, especially ones who clearly aren’t completing as many story points as their teammates. Next thing you know your manager is giving you less than stellar performance reviews, and the AI slopcoders on your team are getting the promotions and being put into position to influence how team norms and culture evolve over time.

The worst part is, this isn’t me speculatively catastrophizing. I’m just observing how my own organization’s culture has changed over the past couple of years.

It’s hitting the less senior team members hardest, too. They are generally less skilled at reading code and therefore less able to keep up with the rapid growth in code volume. They are also more likely to get assigned the (ever growing volume of) defect tickets so the more senior members can keep on vibecoding their way to glory.

Re: AI Lazyslop and Personal Responsibility

#56

> After I “Requested changes” he’d get frustrated that I’d do that, and put all his changes in an already approved PR and sneak merge it in another PR. This is outrageous regardless of AI. Clearly there are process and technical barriers that failed in order to even make this possible. How does one commit a huge chunk of new code to an approved PR and not trigger a re-review? But more importantly, in what world does…

Yeah this never happened. This just sounds like an and everyone clapped moments, made to make a blog post. Most people on this planet are reasonable if not pushed.

I envy the type of career you’ve had if you find this sort of behaviour unbelievable.

Re: AI Lazyslop and Personal Responsibility

#57

> After I “Requested changes” he’d get frustrated that I’d do that, and put all his changes in an already approved PR and sneak merge it in another PR. This is outrageous regardless of AI. Clearly there are process and technical barriers that failed in order to even make this possible. How does one commit a huge chunk of new code to an approved PR and not trigger a re-review? But more importantly, in what world does…

Yeah this never happened. This just sounds like an and everyone clapped moments, made to make a blog post. Most people on this planet are reasonable if not pushed.

I actually had someone like "Mike" in my most recent job (though he wasn't uncooperative, just didn't seem to care about writing proper code). He made some tool using AI and i took it over to clean it up and improve it, but he still worked on it too. He got occasionally annoyed when i suggested changes and sometimes i felt i was talking to ChatGPT (or whatever AI he used, i don't know) via a middleman. He didn't put any 1600 line PR (that i remember anyway) but he did add extra stuff to his PRs which were often related to other tasks and the code submitted was often much larger in "volume" than needed.

As an example there was a case where some buttons needed a special highlight based on some flag, something that could be done in 4-5 lines of code or so (this was in Unreal Engine, the UI is drawn each frame), but the PR was adding a value indicating if the button would need to be highlighted when the button was created and this value was passed around all over the place in the up to the point where the data that was used to create the UI with the buttons would be. And since the UI could change that flag, the code also recreated the UI whenever the flag changed. And because the UI had state such as scrolling, selected items, etc, whenever the UI was recreated, it saved the current state and restored it after it was recreated (together with adding storage for the state). Ultimately, it worked, but it was too much code for what it needed to do.

The kicker was that the modifications to pass around the value for the flag's state wasn't even necessary (even ignoring the fact that the flag could have been checked directly during drawing) because a struct with configuration settings was already passed through the same paths and the value could have been added to said struct. Not that it would have saved the need to save/restore the UI state though.

Re: AI Lazyslop and Personal Responsibility

#58
post #11

I have no idea what AI changes about this scenario. It's the same scenario as when Mike did this with 1600 lines of his own code ten years ago; it just happens more often, since Mike comes up with 1600 lines of code in a day instead of in a sprint. > I don’t blame Mike, I blame the system that forced him to do this. Bending over backwards not to be the meanie is pointless. You're trying to stop him because the system…

> I have no idea what AI changes > Mike comes up with 1600 lines of code in a day instead of in a sprint It seems like you do have an idea of at least one thing that AI changes.

The more often it happens, the more practice you get at delivering the bad news, and the quicker Mike learns to live up to the team's technical standards?

Re: AI Lazyslop and Personal Responsibility

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because when your code is handwritten, it's supposed to be a translation of you parsing business requirements to code. Using AI adds a non-deterministic layer in between, and a lot of code now is there that you probably didn't need. The prompt is helpful to figure out what is needed and what isn't.

The correct thing to do is to annotate the code and the PR with comments. You shouldn't be submitting code you don't understand in the first place. These comments will contain the reasoning in the prompts. Giving me a list of prompts would just be annoying and messy, not informative. Also, we should not be submitting huge PRs in general. It is difficult to be thorough in such cases. Changes will be less well understo…

The AI velocity comes from large PRs that no-one reviews.

Re: AI Lazyslop and Personal Responsibility

#60

> After I “Requested changes” he’d get frustrated that I’d do that, and put all his changes in an already approved PR and sneak merge it in another PR. This is outrageous regardless of AI. Clearly there are process and technical barriers that failed in order to even make this possible. How does one commit a huge chunk of new code to an approved PR and not trigger a re-review? But more importantly, in what world does…

Yeah this never happened. This just sounds like an and everyone clapped moments, made to make a blog post. Most people on this planet are reasonable if not pushed.

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