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Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

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Re: Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

#51

Post by knowknow »

gtowey wrote: post #32
bbayles wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sympathetic to this view, but I also wonder if this is the same thing that assembly language programmers said about compilers. What do you mean that you never look at the machine code? What if the compiler does something inefficient?

Not even remotely close. Compilers are deterministic. People who write them test that they will produce correct results. You can expect the same code to compile to the same assembly. With LLMs two people giving the exact same prompts can get wildly different results. That is not a tool you can use to blindly ship production code. Imagine if your compiler randomly threw in a syscall to delete your hard drive, or decid…

Not only that but compiler optimizations are generally based on rigorous mathematical proofs, so that even without testing them you can be pretty sure it will generate equivalent assembly. From the little I know of LLM's, I'm pretty sure no one has figured out what mathematical principles LLM's are generating code from so you cant be sure its going to right aside from testing it.

Re: Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

#52

Post by piker »

mediaman wrote: post #46

I don't get the widespread hatred of Gas Town. If you read Steve's writeup, it's clear that this is a big fun experiment. It pushes and crosses boundaries, it is a mixture of technology and art, it is provocative. It takes stochastic neural nets and mashes them together in bizarre ways to see if anything coherent comes out the other end. And the reaction is a bunch of Very Serious Engineers who cross their arms and h…

> If you read Steve's writeup

Personally I got about 3 paragraphs into what seemed like a twelve-page fevered dream and filed it under "not for me yet".

Re: Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

#53

Post by cluckindan »

kh_hk wrote: post #4
acedTrex wrote: post #2

[flagged]

Brought to you by the creators (abstractly) of vibe coding, ralph and yolo mode. Either a conspiracy to deconstruct our view of reality, or just a tendency to invent funny words for novelty

It’s brainrot, that’s what it is.

I believe agentic coding could eventually be a paradigm shift, if and only if the agents become self-conscious of design decisions and their implications on the system and its surrounding systems as a whole.

If that doesn’t happen, the entire workflow devolves into specifying system states and behavior in natural language, which is something humans are exceedingly bad at.

Coincidently, that is why we have invented programming languages: to be able to express program state and behavior unambiguously.

I’m not bullish on a future where I have to write specifications on all explicit and implicit corner and edge cases just to have an agent make software design choices which don’t feel batshit insane to humans.

We already have software corporations which produce that kind of code simply because the people doing the specifying don’t know the system or the domain it operates in, and the people doing the implementing of those specifications don’t necessarily know any of that either.

Re: Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

#54

Post by kaydub »

suriya-ganesh wrote: post #7

>Yegge is leaning into the true definition of vibecoding with this project: “It is 100% vibecoded. I’ve never seen the code, and I never care to.” I don't get it. Even with a very good understanding of what type of work I am doing and a prebuilt knowledge of the code, even for very well specced problem. Claude code etc. just plain fail or use sloppy code. How do these industry figures claim they see no part of a 225K…

I don't get you guys that are getting such bad results.

Are you guys just trying to one shot stuff? Are you not using agents to iterate on things? Are you not putting agents against each other (have one code, one critique/test the code, and put them in a loop)?

I still look at the code that's produced, I'm not THAT far down the "vibe coding" path that I'm trusting everything being produced, but I get phenomenal results and I don't actually write any code any more.

So like, yeah, first pass the llm will create my feature and there's definitely some poorly written code or duplicate code or other code smells, but then I tell another agent to review and find all these problems. Then that review gets fed back in to the agent that created the feature. Wham, bam, clean code.

I'm not using gastown or ralph wiggum ($$$) but reading the docs, looking over how things work, I can see how it all comes together and should work. They've been built out to automatically do the review + iteration loop that I do.

Re: Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

#55

Post by anonymous908213 »

azan_ wrote: post #40
anonymous908213 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The secret is that it doesn't work. None of these people have built real software that anyone outside their bubble uses. They are not replacing anyone, they are just off in their own corner building sand castles.

> The secret is that it doesn't work. I have 100% vibecoded software that I now use instead of commercial implementation that cost me almost 200 usd a month (tool for radiology dictation and report generation).

And yet I notice you haven't mentioned publishing it and undercutting the market. You could make a lot of money out-competing the existing option if what you produced was production-grade software. I'm guessing the actual case is that you only needed a small subset of the functionality of the paid software, and the LLM stitched together a rough unpolished proof-of-concept that handled your exact specific use case. Which is still great for you! But it's not the future of coding. The world still needs real engineers to make real software that is suitable for the needs of many, and this doesn't replace that.

Re: Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

#56

Post by [deleted] »

mediaman wrote: post #46

I don't get the widespread hatred of Gas Town. If you read Steve's writeup, it's clear that this is a big fun experiment. It pushes and crosses boundaries, it is a mixture of technology and art, it is provocative. It takes stochastic neural nets and mashes them together in bizarre ways to see if anything coherent comes out the other end. And the reaction is a bunch of Very Serious Engineers who cross their arms and h…

[deleted]

Re: Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

#57

Post by crote »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #11

> I also think Yegge deserves praise for exercising agency and taking a swing at a system like this, despite the inefficiencies and chaos of this iteration. And then running a public tour of his shitty, quarter-built plane while it’s mid-flight. Can we please stop with the backhanded compliments and judgement? This is cutting edge technology in a brand new field of computing using experimental methods. Please give th…

> Please give the guy a break. At least he's trying to advance the state of the art.

The problem is that as an outsider it really looks like someone is trying to herd a bunch of monkeys into writing Shakespeare, or trying to advance impressionist art by pretending a baby's first crayon scratches are equivalent to a Pollock.

I bet he's having a lot of fun playing around with "cutting-edge technology", but it's missing any kind of scientific rigor or analysis, so the results are going to be completely useless to anyone wanting to genuinely advance the use of LLMs for programming.

Re: Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

#58

Post by kgwgk »

suriya-ganesh wrote: post #7

>Yegge is leaning into the true definition of vibecoding with this project: “It is 100% vibecoded. I’ve never seen the code, and I never care to.” I don't get it. Even with a very good understanding of what type of work I am doing and a prebuilt knowledge of the code, even for very well specced problem. Claude code etc. just plain fail or use sloppy code. How do these industry figures claim they see no part of a 225K…

> How do these industry figures claim they see no part of a 225K+ line of code and promise that it works?

The only promise is that you will get your face ripped off.

“WARNING DANGER CAUTION - GET THE F** OUT - YOU WILL DIE […] Gas Town is an industrialized coding factory manned by superintelligent robot chimps, and when they feel like it, they can wreck your shit in an instant. They will wreck the other chimps, the workstations, the customers. They’ll rip your face off if you aren’t already an experienced chimp-wrangler.”

Re: Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

#59

Post by ryandrake »

anonymous908213 wrote: post #10
suriya-ganesh wrote: post #7

>Yegge is leaning into the true definition of vibecoding with this project: “It is 100% vibecoded. I’ve never seen the code, and I never care to.” I don't get it. Even with a very good understanding of what type of work I am doing and a prebuilt knowledge of the code, even for very well specced problem. Claude code etc. just plain fail or use sloppy code. How do these industry figures claim they see no part of a 225K…

The secret is that it doesn't work. None of these people have built real software that anyone outside their bubble uses. They are not replacing anyone, they are just off in their own corner building sand castles.

Just because they're one-off tools that only one person uses doesn't mean it's not "real software". I'm actually pretty excited about the fact that it's now feasible for me to replace all my BloatedShittyCommercialApps that I only use 5% of with vibe-coded bespoke tools that only do the important 5%, just for me to use. If that makes it a "sand castle" to you, fine, but this is real software and I'm seeing real benefit here.

Re: Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

#60

Post by tikhonj »

mediaman wrote: post #46

I don't get the widespread hatred of Gas Town. If you read Steve's writeup, it's clear that this is a big fun experiment. It pushes and crosses boundaries, it is a mixture of technology and art, it is provocative. It takes stochastic neural nets and mashes them together in bizarre ways to see if anything coherent comes out the other end. And the reaction is a bunch of Very Serious Engineers who cross their arms and h…

A sense of art and whimsy and experimentation is less compelling when it's jumping on the hypest of hype-trains. I'd love to see more folk art in programming, but Gas Town is closer to fucking Beeple than anything charming.
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