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Proton spam and the AI consent problem

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Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#51

Post by SCdF »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #19

I think we must make it clear that this is not related to AI at all, even if the product in question is AI-related. It is a very common problem with modern marketing teams, that have zero empathy for customers (even if they have one, they will never push back on whatever insane demands come from senior management). This is why any email subscription management interface now is as bloated as a dead whale. If too many…

I disagree: in as much as I have noticed this *far* more with AI than any other advancement / fad (depending on your opinion) than anything else before.

This also tracks with every app and website injecting AI into every one of your interactions, with no way to disable it.

I think the article's point about non-consent is a very apt one, and expresses why I dislike this trend so much. I left Google Workspace, as a paying customer for years, because they injected gemini into gmail etc and I couldn't turn it off (only those on the most expensive enterprise plans could at the time I left).

To be clear I am someone that uses AI basically every day, but the non-consent is still frustrating and dehumanising. Users–even paying users–are "considered" in design these days as much as a cow is "considered" in the design of a dairy farm.

I am moving all of the software that I pay for to competitors who either do not integrate AI, or allow me to disable it if I wish.

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#52

Post by duskdozer »

pil0u wrote: post #14
duskdozer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you noticed certain financial providers sending blatant marketing emails with no unsubscribe option and a comment along the lines of "these emails are not marketing"

This is illegal practice in the EU

It's illegal in the US too as far as I'm aware. But you missed the part where they clearly stated "it's not marketing" ;)

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#53

Post by StrangeSound »

danielhep wrote: post #42

This problem, along with general annoyances at Proton’s lack of focus on a good email experience pushed me over the edge to move to Fastmail. I’m so much happier. Proton Mail Bridge would often pin one core of my laptop CPU, draining my battery, and it was still slow to sync new email. With Fastmail, incoming mail is so fast that the verification codes are already there before I can alt tab over.

I'm in the same boat. I think part of that is Proton is spread across a huge suite of products and features, whereas Fastmail is specialised in one.

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#54

Post by TheChaplain »

stackghost wrote: post #45
usefulposter wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, that sounds like Signal! https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/4590 >We're not going to remove the reminders. >If you don't want to provide that access, you still don't need to – you can simply tap remind me later once a month (See also: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/4373 , https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/5809 , ...)

Signal is an interesting case study in UX failure. I and a bunch of other tech forward people were on it in its heyday but after they removed SMS support and implemented shitty UX like that nag dialog: Neither I nor a single person I know uses it any more. Everyone is on Whatsapp or iMessage. It may be cryptographically superior, but does that matter at the end of the day if nobody uses it?

> It may be cryptographically superior, but does that matter at the end of the day if nobody uses it?

I've made a few attempts to convert people, but no-go. People stay on Telegram and WhatsApp because they have better UX and features.

Signal refuses to see the value in good attractive UX.

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#55

Post by dwedge »

genewitch wrote: post #46
perching_aix wrote: post #9

I have a Proton mailbox I specifically keep around to serve as a honeypot, for tracking when one of the many annoying little services will inevitably mishandle the contact address I hand them. Over the years, the only spam I ever received there was from Proton. Quite the way to recalibrate my expectations, eh?

i think i have a proton email address, but i never used it. i wonder. but i pay fastmail a whopping $15/yr to give me mailboxes on my domain, which i have always heard is a good way to track who's selling your data. So far, nothing has made it past the spam filter, and i don't check spam (how many valid emails have you found in spam in the last 5 years?); that being said apparently no one is selling my email address…

> (how many valid emails have you found in spam in the last 5 years?)

Personally, running SpamAssassin, zero.

However, this seems to be getting worse with the big providers deciding to drop domains they don't like from time to time. Selfhosted email will work for 4 years and then Google or Microsoft will spam them for a month for no reason. It always starts working again because I assume that what they are doing is technically anti-trust and running it for too long would make it obvious.

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#56

Post by dwedge »

There's one recruiting company I had contact with in 2017 (pre-GDPR, with no checked consent after) and they keep sending me marketing-disguised-as-GDPR emails. "Reply to tell us you want to keep hearing about our career insights newsletter that you never signed up for, or we'll delete your data in 30 days".

In the end I got sick of them repeating this and never deleting the data, so I sent them a SAR. I don't care what data they have but if they want to play the GDPR game so do I.

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#57

Post by littlecranky67 »

usefulposter wrote: post #40
chc4 wrote: post #7

I saw a Mastodon tweet a while ago, which went something like: Do tech companies understand consent?: - [ ] Yes - [ ] Ask me again in a few days

Hey, that sounds like Signal! https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/4590 >We're not going to remove the reminders. >If you don't want to provide that access, you still don't need to – you can simply tap remind me later once a month (See also: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/4373 , https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/5809 , ...)

I get their point that you can't provide a "No" in the reminder. But there should be an option (maybe even hidden under "advanced settings - here be dragons!") for this.

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#58

Post by junon »

genewitch wrote: post #39
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. The number of services i use where the apps continually add new marketing preferences which are defaulted to ‘enabled’ despite the fact that all other preferences are disabled is disgusting and clearly used by some companies to ignore people’s actual preferences. LinkedIn is one of the worst offenders.

control+alt+shift+Win+L

This never stops annoying me that it exists.

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#59

Post by hn111 »

danielhep wrote: post #42

This problem, along with general annoyances at Proton’s lack of focus on a good email experience pushed me over the edge to move to Fastmail. I’m so much happier. Proton Mail Bridge would often pin one core of my laptop CPU, draining my battery, and it was still slow to sync new email. With Fastmail, incoming mail is so fast that the verification codes are already there before I can alt tab over.

Same here, I've found too many bugs in Proton's email client and instead of fixing them they just release new products. FastMail support has been great, I think the developers themselves reply (some of the?) emails, going into technical details and being actually helpful.

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#60

Post by littlecranky67 »

causalscience wrote: post #21

I only use Proton for the spam or temporary low value (and free) email accounts. Proton also tries to do everything, which I don't like. If I did I'd use Google. The thing I pay for is Tuta. The cheapest tier is way more generous than Proton and the product is simpler.

I have the exact opposite opinion. I use proton business together with their email, vpn, calendar, drive (on macOS), password manager etc. and switched specifically because of their encryption, data protection and fulls-size feature bundle. Plus, I migrated vom Office365 and it became a shitshow to manage and was full of bugs. And I had a separate bitwarden subscription, and a separate VPN subscription. Now it is one package, much preferred.
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