soon he will be dead and the slow, painful, halting recovery will begin
Greenland Crisis
51–60 of 100 posts
Re: Greenland Crisis
#52Re: Greenland Crisis
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The US Geological Survey estimates that onshore northeast Greenland (including ice-covered areas) contains around 31 billion barrels of oil-equivalent in hydrocarbons https://theconversation.com/greenland-is-rich-in-natural-res...
The US doesn't need oil, it's the world's largest producer and has enormous estimated recoverable oil reserves comparable to Venezuela or Russia. Greenland is either about Trump intentionally causing chaos with NATO for the benefit of Russia (depending on your politics), or it's the Pentagon & Co. looking to lock down strategic territory for the near future superpower stand-off with China, which will be a global conf…
Re: Greenland Crisis
#54[flagged]
Re: Greenland Crisis
#55[flagged]
NATO is unbelievably, stupendously critical to US security.
We now live in a world that knows for a fact a deal with the US is worth nothing and can not even be relied upon to last more than six months.
Countries and allies that made trade deals with Trump after he destroyed existing deals are now seeing further petty tariffs being applied by what appears to be a giant baby.
All the movements of plastic ships and little horses on a Risk map aside, the steady undercurrent of reliable trade and markets is headed out the window in an act of self defenestration.
Re: Greenland Crisis
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
The US doesn't need oil, it's the world's largest producer and has enormous estimated recoverable oil reserves comparable to Venezuela or Russia. Greenland is either about Trump intentionally causing chaos with NATO for the benefit of Russia (depending on your politics), or it's the Pentagon & Co. looking to lock down strategic territory for the near future superpower stand-off with China, which will be a global conf…
What Arctic access is provided by Greenland that isn't already provided by Alaska and control of the Bering strait? US naval ambitions in the Arctic are limited by the US' weak shipbuilding capacity, which it's relied on Canada and Europe to compensate for. Those are also the nations most pissed off by the US' nonsense.
The US only recognizes two threatening competitor powers in the world today: China and Russia. Russia is of course not what it was during the Soviet era. However a long-term partnership with China would change the dynamic a lot. Russian territory may come to host major Chinese ports in time. For the right price it's extremely likely that China can buy a multi port deal in the Arctic Ocean region from Russia. It'd be invaluable access & projection potential for China. Any superpower would want that realistically.
Re: Greenland Crisis
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
What Arctic access is provided by Greenland that isn't already provided by Alaska and control of the Bering strait? US naval ambitions in the Arctic are limited by the US' weak shipbuilding capacity, which it's relied on Canada and Europe to compensate for. Those are also the nations most pissed off by the US' nonsense.
Several things: 1) the US will deploy substantial military assets to Greenland. Far beyond what it has now. That will include building massive radar arrays and missile defense systems. By controlling Greenland it won't need permission for anything it does. 2) The US will aggressively claim water territory around Greenland and use it to restrict transit by foreign military powers. Svalbard is on the table for invasion…
By controlling Greenland it won't need permission for anything it does
So the US would destroy all of its diplomatic relations specifically to avoid asking Canada for permission? And these new missile defense systems would presumably be integrated under NORAD, where Canada would have a say anyway. I don't find this a particularly convincing argument. Owning Greenland gets the US massive territory 3,000 KM closer to Moscow.
Moscow has been in range of US ICBMs since the cold war. The US also has an agreement with Canada allowing use of their airspace for nuclear weapons as well.Re: Greenland Crisis
#58[flagged]
And the US has had full access to it for defense purposes since 1951:
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/den001.asp
At the end of WWII, the US had 17 military facilities on Greenland. By its own choice, it is now down to 1:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_in_Greenland
> As of 2020 Denmark's Arctic Command has one aircraft, four helicopters, four ships, and six dog sleds to patrol the entire island
Maybe you didn't notice, but it's 2026 now. Here's an update for you:
https://nordicdefencesector.com/en/article/denmark-invests-2...
> Greenland can declare independence on its own at any time
And wants to keep it that way. Considering what happened the last time secession was attempted in the US, and the legal aftermath which ruled it unconstitutional,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White#Majority_opinio...
that alone is enough to make joining the US a non-starter for them:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g3kw5ezepo
> there is always an uncertainty from having to depend on a foreign government
So "uncertainty" is now a valid reason to invade allies? Because maybe some day they might no longer want to be allied? Put it that way and it seems more like a "psychological need". Oh, wait...
https://people.com/donald-trump-wants-ownership-greenland-ps...
> Annexation would also simplify US access to Greenland's natural resources
Implied in that statement is that it would allow mining companies to ignore what the natives want. We've seen that movie before (and so have the Greenlanders):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Removal_Act#Legacy
> it leeches €600 million from Copenhagen annually
And this is a problem for the US?
> with Denmark and the US paying for everything
What is this "everything" that the US is supposedly paying for, other than the upkeep of the single military base it's kept there?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pituffik_Space_Base
Personnel: 150. That is the measure of how important the US actually thinks Greenland is for its security. Needless to say, those 150 Americans are not there to defend Greenland; they are there to operate a US Space Force remote tracking station which provides early warning if something bad heads toward the continental US over the North Pole. You want the Greenlanders to pay for that?
> Greenland a) is inevitably going to gain independence—every single poll for decades has shown this
What the polls show is that the Greenlanders would like to become independent. They've had the option to do so since 2009, and they have not, because they know that Greenland
> b) is completely unable to function on its own as a bona fide independent country
Exactly. Now explain how you reconcile your (a) with your (b). Don't forget to explain why they would want to do so if they have "the best of all worlds now", which you claimed just before enunciating (a).
> I don't believe that the US would invade Greenland militarily; it will likely buy it
Which part of "no" don't you understand?
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c338rm41y88o
https://www.reuters.com/video/watch/idRW556309012026RP1/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/18/trump-consider...
> But let's say that the US does, and NATO dissolves.
Thus ending the security architecture which has kept Europe from blowing up the world a third time for nearly eight decades. In place of which you propose to put what?
> It comes down to net benefits. Would owning Greenland be more valuable for American national security, than the current NATO status quo of the US being willing to to accept its own cities being nuked if Russia invades Western Europe?
Quite obviously not. Let's say the US takes Greenland by force. First, this will happen:
https://edition.cnn.com/2026/01/19/politics/video/donald-tru...
Second, Russia would immediately follow the example and seize Svalbard while the West is busy tearing itself apart. And of course create a security zone around Murmansk; as you surely know, the Russian Northern Fleet's main base is less than 30 miles from the (current) Norwegian border:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapadnaya_Litsa_(naval_base)
Another little thing which would be taken care of quickly would be that corridor to Kaliningrad which they've been wanting since their latest imperial collapse:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suwa%C5%82ki_Gap
The Baltics would then be easy pickings.
At this point you have Denmark in a shooting war with the US; and Norway, Poland, the three Baltic states and most likely Finland + Sweden in a shooting war with Russia; the perfect moment for China to make its move on Taiwan, and for North Korea to "help" by attacking South Korea (incidentally seizing or destroying 90% of the world's compute production capacity).
Congratulations, you just started WW III.
And all because of a "psychological need" which could only be satisfied by turning half a billion friends into enemies who will never forget, let alone forgive, your betrayal.
Brilliant strategy.
Re: Greenland Crisis
#59Re: Greenland Crisis
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a fair question. Greenland appears to be a very harsh place to live. Younger generations may not want to deal with that and go live in Europe.
Does the American government pay people to post and push their narratives on the internet?