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High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

bbc.com

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Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#51

Post by radicaldreamer »

xlbuttplug2 wrote: post #11
deadbabe wrote: post #8

Always try to sit in seats where your back is toward the direction of motion.

Huh. I'd never thought of this. If that is actually meaningfully beneficial, I wonder if they'd design self driving cars with the seats facing backwards, given there's no longer a necessity to look at the road. (edit: I guess it's more of no-brainer on a train/bus where you don't have a seat belt)

Infant car seats face backwards, they recommend backwards facing for a long as possible (until the kid is too big to fit comfortably in a backwards facing position).

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#52

Post by SkiFire13 »

bjackman wrote: post #33
deadbabe wrote: post #8

Always try to sit in seats where your back is toward the direction of motion.

Train crashes like this are _so_ rare. It's not as safe as flying but AFAICT in rich countries it's the same rough order of magnitude in terms of danger level. I don't have data but I would imagine crashes on these high speed lines (which always seem to be run at a higher level of professionalism than the general networks) are rarest of all. I don't think it's a good use of mental energy to plan for a crash like this…

> I don't have data

Most railway deaths in the EU are due to unauthorized people on the tracks or due to crossings. The actual number of passengers deaths has been really low in the past years.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#54

Post by fredoralive »

D_Alex wrote: post #49
bjackman wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Train crashes like this are _so_ rare. It's not as safe as flying but AFAICT in rich countries it's the same rough order of magnitude in terms of danger level. I don't have data but I would imagine crashes on these high speed lines (which always seem to be run at a higher level of professionalism than the general networks) are rarest of all. I don't think it's a good use of mental energy to plan for a crash like this…

>It's not as safe as flying In France and Japan, HSR has had zero fatalities in the entire period of operation. In China, HSR had AFAIR one fatal crash, with 40 fatalities. Per passenger-mile, Chinese HSR is twice as safe as US air travel.

France has had one fatal crash on an LGV, but it was during initial line testing where some safety systems were bypassed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckwersheim_derailment

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#55

Post by Dylan16807 »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #37
bjackman wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Train crashes like this are _so_ rare. It's not as safe as flying but AFAICT in rich countries it's the same rough order of magnitude in terms of danger level. I don't have data but I would imagine crashes on these high speed lines (which always seem to be run at a higher level of professionalism than the general networks) are rarest of all. I don't think it's a good use of mental energy to plan for a crash like this…

Brain cycles aren’t a limited supply. Besides, you’ll get to feel a nice jolt of serotonin when you remember to sit backwards. > I would imagine crashes on these high speed lines (which always seem to be run at a higher level of professionalism than the general networks) are rarest of all If this crash is anything like the other ones, you might be surprised. Safety complacency tends to cause maintenance failures. Plu…

> Brain cycles aren’t a limited supply.

Sure they are.

> Besides, you’ll get to feel a nice jolt of serotonin when you remember to sit backwards.

I can also get that by remembering that I'm conquering a superstition and fitting my behavior closer to real risks.

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#56

Post by jacquesm »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #5
dankwizard wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unusual for a train though. We already know Americans can't drive but with trains like... how do you mess up a straight line?

> For the last decade, an average of 1,300 trains derailed each year (in the US), accounting for 61% of all train accidents. https://usafacts.org/articles/are-train-derailments-becoming... > In 2024, there were 1,507 significant railway accidents in the EU, with a total of 750 people killed and 548 seriously injured. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derailm…

The bulk of those are accidents involving railway crossings. There is a program to get rid of all level crossings in NL but it will take a lot of time and cost a ton of money. But there really is no way in which you can make a level crossing safe in combination with normal train speeds.

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#57

Post by whatevaa »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #40
deadbabe wrote: post #8

Always try to sit in seats where your back is toward the direction of motion.

I feel like airplanes should be designed this way. Outside of takeoff and landing it would be pretty hard to even notice the difference, once you're seated.

C5 Galaxy (US military jumbo cargo plane) has a passenger compartment with rear facing seats.

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#58

Post by Dylan16807 »

deaux wrote: post #19
wk_end wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming it was the only incident in America that day, rather than an exceptional outlier stacked on top of the usual day in America. Yes, a single car crash killing 150 people would make the news. It would be among the worst, if not the single worst, car accident of all time [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple-vehicle_collision

> And I think if you math it out with something per capita equivalent, this would actually be an exceptionally bad day/incident for the US. This is now how I interpreted "bad day", think it would be clearer to remove "day" if that's what you meant. Of course you're right in that it would be awful as a car accident, they simply don't happen that many as a time. Which is why our monkey brain's lack of emotional respons…

> "many small cuts" vs "one big cut" incorrectly causes the belief that cars and e.g. coal/gas are much safer than they are

Did anyone say that? This conversation was mostly about newsworthiness.

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#59

Post by Dylan16807 »

userbinator wrote: post #13
dankwizard wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unusual for a train though. We already know Americans can't drive but with trains like... how do you mess up a straight line?

...when they come off the tracks. a high-speed train travelling from Malaga to Madrid derailed and crossed over onto another track

Yes we know it derailed, that's not the answer to *how* it failed on a straight line.

How in the cause and effect sense, not which direction it went.

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#60

Post by throw310822 »

bjackman wrote: post #33
deadbabe wrote: post #8

Always try to sit in seats where your back is toward the direction of motion.

Train crashes like this are _so_ rare. It's not as safe as flying but AFAICT in rich countries it's the same rough order of magnitude in terms of danger level. I don't have data but I would imagine crashes on these high speed lines (which always seem to be run at a higher level of professionalism than the general networks) are rarest of all. I don't think it's a good use of mental energy to plan for a crash like this…

> It's not as safe as flying

In the EU it's safer than flying, with 0.5 deaths per 100 billion km/ passenger vs 3 deaths per 100 billion kms/ passenger. However, since an airplane flies at, let's say, six times the average speed of a train, the actual probability of dying during a 1-hour trip is almost 40 times more on a plane than on a train.

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