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Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

bundesregierung.de

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Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#51

Post by ben_w »

rpiguy wrote: post #48
ben_w wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't say "think differently", they said "promoting fascism". If you look at J6 attempted self-coup where people were chanting death threats agaisnt the vice president and had a hangman's noose ready and pipe bombs were found and say "that was a peaceful protest", while also looking at the woman who was shot dead through the side window of her car while departing from a group of ICE officers and call that "self…

[flagged]

Y'see, this is exactly what I mean: "You may have a problem" was carefully much more neutral than your reaction here.

> Oh yeah the coup where no one brought firearms and the only person shot was a protester?

Multiple individuals connected to Jan 6 were found with guns and ammunition: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol-riot-weapons-deadly-dan... and https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters...

> The cop who shot Ashley Babbit was given “de facto immunity.”

  Video from inside the Capitol building showed her attempting to climb through a broken window outside the House chamber when the officer, who was guarding the entrance from the rioters, fired.
As in, while committing a crime. Not through the *side* window of a car.

> Half the country is outraged that leftists think just because they don’t like immigration law, as it is written and voted for, that it’s okay to obstruct deportations and drive vehicles into innocent ICE officers doing their job.

Read this carefully:

Side. Window.

She (Renne Good) did not, and could not, have been driving the car into the person who shot her through the side window.

Because, and I don't know if this is news to you, cars do not drive sideways.

> If Oklahoma declared itself a sanctuary state from unions and declared it didn’t have to adhere labor law would you agree with their right to do so? If Salt Lake City decided to be a sanctuary for polygamy and underage marriage and started obstructing the FBI when they came in to arrest people would you be cheering?

What about! What about! What about!

The current administration is violating your own constitution. The behaviour of ICE is unlawful within your own rules.

> Imagine the chaos if every city just ignored the laws they don’t like.

I don't need to imagine, it looks like Trump.

> Calling each other facists and nazis is just lazy, inaccurate, and an excuse for elevating oneself over ones political opponents.

There are bronze plaques on the ground in my city dedicated to the victims of fascism. I don't speak for others, but I tell you this myself: Trump has been following the same footsteps as those whose dishonour is memorialised by the names of their victims upon those plaques.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#52

Post by bicx »

smilliken wrote: post #41
afterburner wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't let the people in your life casually get away with promoting fascism. Punish them socially.

That strategy may be cathartic, but it will have the opposite of the desired effect. If there's any hope of changing someone's mind, it has to start by respecting their opinion no matter how wrong you think it is. If you start a fight you'll get a fight.

I agree. Trying to punish will just deepen resentment, and they will live in their echo chamber while you live in yours. Then it's just side vs side, with the pundits leading the dialog.

We have to remember that we aren't all working from the same perceptual or moral framework. This is a struggle for me, as I love my parents but our believes have diverged considerably.

I think the challenge right now in the U.S. is that for many, it doesn't feel socially safe to question your own side. In reality, we need to feel free to judge actions individually, and judge leaders as a true accumulation of their actions. If we fear rejection from our party/family/friends for not walking in lock-step with the official party stances, that influences a lot of our thinking. No one wants to feel continually guilty about their own views (especially when there are social consequences for changing them), so we often shove aside conflicting details, make jokes, and signal to others that we're still a part of the tribe.

It sucks.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#53

Post by JeremyNT »

tzs wrote: post #28
bicx wrote: post #5

As a U.S. citizen, I’m beginning to ask myself how to take more meaningful measures to help bring an end to this behavior. I’m not a political activist and generally try to mind my own business, but that mindset only worked when I felt I could trust the system to self-correct. It seems our judicial system can barely keep up, and Congress is doing next to nothing.

One thing that could help would be for Democrats who live in congressional districts where there is no way a Democrat will ever get elected because there are too many people there who just vote for the candidate with the 'R' by their name on the ballot without actually looking into either candidate's positions to switch their registration to Republican. That way they could vote in Republican primaries. Many if not mo…

I live in a district like this and the primary is determined by who is endorsed by the President.

Also these voters are dumb but they aren't that dumb. Unless you know a person who actually has presented as a Trump supporting republican for the last decade and is secretly willing to switch sides after the election, you're not going to trick them.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#54

Post by donkeybeer »

Avicebron wrote: post #15
bicx wrote: post #5

As a U.S. citizen, I’m beginning to ask myself how to take more meaningful measures to help bring an end to this behavior. I’m not a political activist and generally try to mind my own business, but that mindset only worked when I felt I could trust the system to self-correct. It seems our judicial system can barely keep up, and Congress is doing next to nothing.

I think we have to acknowledge the grievances of people who got us into this position in the first place and don't stop making those grievances and the tangible steps being taken to solve them known on every public platform available.

Some people are just so stupid they are beyond all help. They are eternally offended and will always have made up "grievances". For example one really funny "grievance" is that intermarriage is equal to violent murderous genocide. Its best to laugh these "grievances" out the room.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#55

Post by rpiguy »

ben_w wrote: post #51
rpiguy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Y'see, this is exactly what I mean: "You may have a problem" was carefully much more neutral than your reaction here. > Oh yeah the coup where no one brought firearms and the only person shot was a protester? Multiple individuals connected to Jan 6 were found with guns and ammunition: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol-riot-weapons-deadly-dan... and https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters... >…

[flagged]

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#56

Post by bitshiftfaced »

kermitdekikker wrote: post #29
OrvalWintermute wrote: post #16

[flagged]

If the US feels practices are unfair they can go to the Dispute Settlement Body of the World Trade Organisation, or they could do whatever this madness is

And you could say the same about the tariffs mentioned in the article.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#57

Post by ben_w »

rpiguy wrote: post #55
ben_w wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Y'see, this is exactly what I mean: "You may have a problem" was carefully much more neutral than your reaction here. > Oh yeah the coup where no one brought firearms and the only person shot was a protester? Multiple individuals connected to Jan 6 were found with guns and ammunition: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol-riot-weapons-deadly-dan... and https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters... >…

[flagged]

> And Facism starts with civilians who act as enforcers and intimidators, not with the police. Hitler’s brown shirts and Mussolini's black shirts elevated the Facists to power. The SS came afterwords. Antifa is far closer to the brownshirts than any other organization in the US. Power through intimidation and chaos. Facist.

Here's a video of the people you refuse to recognise meet that exact description:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Capitol_riot-_Videos_show...

As you're not willing to listen to words, there's no point me wasting effort debunking the rest.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#58

Post by rpiguy »

ben_w wrote: post #57
rpiguy wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> And Facism starts with civilians who act as enforcers and intimidators, not with the police. Hitler’s brown shirts and Mussolini's black shirts elevated the Facists to power. The SS came afterwords. Antifa is far closer to the brownshirts than any other organization in the US. Power through intimidation and chaos. Facist. Here's a video of the people you refuse to recognise meet that exact description: https://en.w…

[flagged]

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#59

Post by tzs »

rpiguy wrote: post #55
ben_w wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Y'see, this is exactly what I mean: "You may have a problem" was carefully much more neutral than your reaction here. > Oh yeah the coup where no one brought firearms and the only person shot was a protester? Multiple individuals connected to Jan 6 were found with guns and ammunition: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol-riot-weapons-deadly-dan... and https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters... >…

[flagged]

> The officer suffered bruised ribs from the impact of the vehicle

Even if there was contact no one gets bruised ribs from a car going as slow as that car was moving at that point.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#60

Post by dragonwriter »

rpiguy wrote: post #55
ben_w wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Y'see, this is exactly what I mean: "You may have a problem" was carefully much more neutral than your reaction here. > Oh yeah the coup where no one brought firearms and the only person shot was a protester? Multiple individuals connected to Jan 6 were found with guns and ammunition: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol-riot-weapons-deadly-dan... and https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters... >…

[flagged]

> The first shot was through the windshield and the. she turned the wheel and the second two shots were fired through the side window as she was turning away.

Video clearly shows the wheels were cut before forward motion started.

> The officer suffered bruised ribs from the impact of the vehicle.

This seems to be an attempt to rewrite the laughably false “internal bleeding” anonymous propaganda leak CBS news laundered into something remotely credible; there is literally no reason to believe this true, and clear reasons to dismiss it, including video showing thet except for maybe his hand reaching toward the vehicle as it passed, no part of his body was impacted.

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