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All my new code will be closed-source from now on

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Re: All my new code will be closed-source from now on

#51

Post by Madmallard »

throwaway150 wrote: post #37

I don't mean to trivialize the OP's experience. This is definitely a very important matter and serious issue in the industry. So forgive me for raising a much smaller, side point. > I've contributed millions of lines of carefully written OSS code over the past decade I have never tracked my own output, but I would be surprised if I have written even a single million lines of code, let alone several. Out of curiosity,…

I've been coding for 20 years and I don't think come close personally.

Some napkin math: 100-200 python scripts (maybe 250 lines on average)

Work within 10 or so large repositories. (Probably no more than 5000 lines in any repo) (maybe 750 lines on average)

20 or so hobby project games largest being around 30,000 lines (maybe average around 6000?)

15 websites with back-ends (maybe average around 2000 lines)

50 or so school projects (maybe 100 lines on average?)

Two work projects one a games website around 15,000 and the other a .Net application around 20,000

Looks like around 235,000

Re: All my new code will be closed-source from now on

#53

Post by [deleted] »

vidarh wrote: post #35
diego_moita wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And both of them failed. Both the machines and "the system" are alive and well. Did it occurred to you that you're using machines (computers, internet, HN) created by the system to complain about the system? The bitter truth is that we don't have any good alternative for both the machines and "the system". For Luddites' and Marxists' chagrin, manual weaving was indeed a crappy job and "the system" brought what they'd…

Whether you think it possible or not, this take misunderstands Marxism at a fundamental level. For Marxists, automation is a good thing - in fact it is a core precondition of socialism. Marx spent half the first chapter of the Communist Manifesto fanboying over capitalism for the productivity increases brought by capitalism. So why do you think it was to the chagrin of Marxists? Marx spent decades cheering on the adv…

[deleted]

Re: All my new code will be closed-source from now on

#54

Post by nairboon »

csomar wrote: post #45
wewewedxfgdf wrote: post #40

Tailwind is down because it solved the same problem that AI does - CSS is super complex, write only code and largely not memorable. AI is perfect for writing CSS because you can tell it your intent and it does it. There just is not the need for frameworks/libs to make it less complex.

I have just written an article about this (submitted by someone else: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46565409 ) What you are saying is wrong and countered with hard data: LLMs produce and increase the use of tailwind not decrease it. Confirmed by the founder himself.

Where is the hard data?

Re: All my new code will be closed-source from now on

#55

Post by ZoneZealot »

It's an incredibly complex topic, and I do feel for people who are now seeing a massive disruption to the existing ways to monetise their own work (they should be able to live comfortably).

It's quite ironic that they used an LLM to write or at least entirely re-format their post, when their topic is about the impact these systems have on the ongoing sustainability of the humans behind the work.

I personally don't use LLMs and generative models, I find their output way too untrustworthy and their practice of mining the data of others unsettling. Not that anything on the internet can be inherently trusted anyway.

Re: All my new code will be closed-source from now on

#56

Post by barnabee »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #19

Tailwind makes more money than ever through donation, but that isn't a business. It's the tailwind proprietary themes that wasn't doing well. It's just bad to say tailwind is losing because of AI.

Tailwind being funded is evidence to me that there’s still far too much money in making software compared to the rest of society, not too little as the author would like us to think.

Re: All my new code will be closed-source from now on

#57

Post by conartist6 »

init1 wrote: post #43
conartist6 wrote: post #21

I'm writing OSS code with the intent to replace git. I know my position is very different, but to me openness is not a critical vulnerability when facing big companies but my secret weapon. For me the best outcome is taking over all the market currently held by git and GitHub, and the worst outcome would be that Microsoft somehow pulls an embrace-extend-extinguish on us. But my goal, and I think I've been successful…

Git is an OSS project and is not owned even slightly by Microsoft. Github the website however is. You don't need to replace git.

I think I do need to replace it to gain a competitive advantage against an incumbent the size of Microsoft. But to replace it at all I would have to build something that is, at least in a few ways, much, much better, otherwise people wouldn't have any reason to give me a moment's consideration. This market has to be won over from the bottom up.

But yes, even though git is as FOSS as FOSS can be, to me it's still a crucial element of Microsoft's power. It has not escaped my notice that Github managed to turn a popular piece of OSS into a successful, profitable company. Apparently many young coders are surprised to learn that Git and GitHub are not the same thing...

Re: All my new code will be closed-source from now on

#58

Post by stego-tech »

Frustratingly, while I sympathize with their very real plight, I also have to agree with OP’s ultimate decision.

OSS was exploited by hyperscalers to build trillion-dollar industries atop of, but without ever suitably compensating, the creators of much of those tools for their work or sharing in the profit. Before AI, the community was already at a breaking point between private enterprise spouting “supply chain” bullshit at them to demand fixes and attention, or steamrolled small devs to prop up a big corp’s trademark or product, all the while never actually paying enough for the proper development and support of those products - look at NPM (leftpad and kik) as prime examples. Now you have these same big tech ghouls scraping small sites into oblivion with hostile bots, making token predictors that are deliberately engineered to never, ever direct someone to a primary source or site except as an absolute last resort (to keep folks “in app” for engagement metrics), and openly pitching AI coding agents as replacements for human coders forever.

In that context, it’s no fucking wonder that the OSS community is becoming increasingly hostile to the very norms that have left most of them broke and increasingly destitute. Hell, for up-and-coming devs emerging from bootcamps, the mantra of “contribute to OSS” makes zero sense in a Capitalist marketplace that’s pivoting hard towards AI-as-human-replacement; as the OP points out, why bother training your own replacement?

OSS won’t die, but this is a particularly painful chapter that emphasizes it cannot support itself through the (non-existent) generosity of Capital. Alternate funding schemes and organization models are needed to prepare and support it for the future, be they government grants, Academia sponsors, or outright Gov-funded Private or Public Corporations (e.g., BBC, Corporation for Public Broadcasting (RIP), etc). Updates to OSS licensing schemes barring use-cases or with more substantial teeth for commercial use are also needed, toeing the line between empowering users of general computing and extracting reasonable payments from businesses or enterprises.

Re: All my new code will be closed-source from now on

#59

Post by Ekaros »

throwaway150 wrote: post #37

I don't mean to trivialize the OP's experience. This is definitely a very important matter and serious issue in the industry. So forgive me for raising a much smaller, side point. > I've contributed millions of lines of carefully written OSS code over the past decade I have never tracked my own output, but I would be surprised if I have written even a single million lines of code, let alone several. Out of curiosity,…

Also I find it interesting describing it carefully written. To me that most likely would indicate something that has been reviewed, rewritten and reconsidered multiple times. Thus bringing down the total number of lines. As there would be significant time spend on same lines.

Or would anyone disagree that carefully written code takes more time and in the end probably results lot less lines produced in total?

Re: All my new code will be closed-source from now on

#60

Post by mellosouls »

tvbusy wrote: post #48
mellosouls wrote: post #4

The entire argument is framed through an anti-open-source view which sees participation as entirely motivated by money. It's an unfortunate presentation that makes it more difficult to sympathise with - and ultimately it may not matter; either somebody else will fill the gap or the LLMs he resents will help coders create their products without the libraries he seems to think are valueless without a set financial cost…

You're thinking of open source projects that only need a few hours of work per week. Anything more than a few hours a week either requires someone to give up their full time job to work on it (switch to part time jobs/consultation is an option), or having multiple contributors which still require significant effort to coordinate at the end of the day. Let's say Tailwind CSS gives up and stops the project, do you thin…

Open source is charity, it's unreasonable, even entitled, to demand someone work on it full time without pay

Of course, but equally it's also unreasonable and entitled to assume that if you work on it full time (or any time at all) that that work deserves or will receive a fair (or any) financial return. That's not what open source is about, and the featured post seems to miss that.

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