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The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

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Re: The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

#51
post #13

The events of the past 12 months, culminating in Venezuela and now Greenland, has made me reevaluate a lot of my beliefs about unimpeded competition between free agents (i.e. a free market) leading to the best and most peaceful outcomes. Clearly, a few participants becoming disproportionately powerful is a failure mode. The way I've tried to reconcile my beliefs with what are clearly contradictory observations in the…

That's right. Entities must be acting as CITIZENS, first and foremost, bound by laws, norms, and shame. Shame, the glue of civilization, as I call it, is quickly disappearing. The Nothing Matters LOL world is bound to decompose.

Entities acting as citizens is the exact failure mode of USA. They are not citizens, they are objects of regulation.

Re: The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I wonder is about the second order effects. I mean, I'm pretty far from Denmark but here the talk is pretty much like an existential crisis. Even if the US does nothing about it, seems that many people has finally realized that Europe has no allies. This has a lot of implications regarding the Pax Americana, the US/EU financial system, Eurasia, and many others. I don't see any positive outcome for the west in ge…

> Even if the US does nothing about it, seems that many people has finally realized that Europe has no allies. Indeed. But just because EU thinks too high of themselves and is turning down their last natural allies that is the South American/Mercosur countries. So whatever happens to EU is their own fault

Can you give an example of natural ally in south America that has been turned down?

Re: The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

#53
post #13

The events of the past 12 months, culminating in Venezuela and now Greenland, has made me reevaluate a lot of my beliefs about unimpeded competition between free agents (i.e. a free market) leading to the best and most peaceful outcomes. Clearly, a few participants becoming disproportionately powerful is a failure mode. The way I've tried to reconcile my beliefs with what are clearly contradictory observations in the…

All "free market" ideals require no/low barriers to entry in order for the market to be "self regulating". Said absence of barriers to entry almost never exists, hence the idea of completely free markets is completely naive - you need regulation. Markets also cannot account for externalities. If those externalities are something you care about (e.g. the environment you live in) - you need regulation. Economies of sca…

Is it really basic economics that free market leads to monopolies? I thought this is not something where there is a strong consensus about ; free market advocates will actually argue that this is regulation that leads to monopolies.

Re: The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

#54
post #8

There are a few things that confuse me about this potential acquisition: 1. You won't govern it. Greenland has it's own Self-Government Act. [0] 2. You won't own the land. Almost all land is owned by the State. [1] 3. The Danes have no special land ownership rights. [2] 4. Land use rights, however, are granted for different activities (fishing, mining) subject to approval. [3] I'd imagine none of this changes under a…

It may not just be about the minerals....

It could be about leaving NATO.

US (Trump) feels they need Greenland for "security".

They currently have (almost complete) access to use Greenland via NATO and the existing agreements with Denmark. So there is no need to extend this.

However, if the US would want to leave NATO, they would no longer have access to Greenland under existing agreement.

Therefore, if the US wants to leave NATO and still use Greenland (both militarily and for resources), they need to acquire Greenland.

Acquiring Greenland would allow the US to control the entire western hemisphere, leave NATO, and abandon the eastern hemisphere entirely.

Re: The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

#55
post #33
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has enough oil and gas reserves to warrant some freedom™. People there need democracy for God's sake!

The whole meme of "America isn't a country, it's three corporations wearing a trench coat" seems to have been mostly correct, albeit that trench coat is starting to look a lot less like a modern trench coat and more like an actual Trench Coat.

The Emperor's New Trench Coat

Re: The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

#56
post #18

This is Crimea 2.0. The ideological basis behind the annexation is identical in both instances.

There is no similarity whatsoever.

You are clearly wrong. Both Trumpism and Putinism are reactive ultra-conservative ideologies. Annexation of Crimea was motivated largely by Russia's "legitimate security concerns". Russian propaganda was busy convincing the population that Crimea gives strategic control over Black Sea region and if Russia didn't intervene, there would have been NATO bases on the peninsula after the Maiden revolution. Trump and his sycophants are saying the same thing: American security, Arctic, and American geopolitical foes: China and Russia.

Re: The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I wonder is about the second order effects. I mean, I'm pretty far from Denmark but here the talk is pretty much like an existential crisis. Even if the US does nothing about it, seems that many people has finally realized that Europe has no allies. This has a lot of implications regarding the Pax Americana, the US/EU financial system, Eurasia, and many others. I don't see any positive outcome for the west in ge…

> Even if the US does nothing about it, seems that many people has finally realized that Europe has no allies. Indeed. But just because EU thinks too high of themselves and is turning down their last natural allies that is the South American/Mercosur countries. So whatever happens to EU is their own fault

What are you talking about. There's little real opposition to the EU-Mercosur trade deal. It'll be ratified this year. The EU is the largest source of foreign direct investment in Mercosur.

Re: The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

#58
post #13

The events of the past 12 months, culminating in Venezuela and now Greenland, has made me reevaluate a lot of my beliefs about unimpeded competition between free agents (i.e. a free market) leading to the best and most peaceful outcomes. Clearly, a few participants becoming disproportionately powerful is a failure mode. The way I've tried to reconcile my beliefs with what are clearly contradictory observations in the…

> The way I've tried to reconcile my beliefs with what are Why are you doing this "effort" to alienate yourself in place of blaming the country and government responsible for this?

Because I believe that causes of events are other events, and not objects. To blame an event (or a series of events) on a person (or a group of people) is a premature causality sink (e.g. "Why did X do evil thing? Because X is an evil person" -- this is not an explanation, it just puts an end to rational inquiry).

Re: The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

#59
post #13

The events of the past 12 months, culminating in Venezuela and now Greenland, has made me reevaluate a lot of my beliefs about unimpeded competition between free agents (i.e. a free market) leading to the best and most peaceful outcomes. Clearly, a few participants becoming disproportionately powerful is a failure mode. The way I've tried to reconcile my beliefs with what are clearly contradictory observations in the…

I've arrived at the opposite conclusion. The root cause of conflict is decentralized power, which is the prediction of realism. Conflict occurs because of security competition, but security competition is only possible when powers are equally matched and trapped in a Prisoner's Dilemma dynamic.

You can sense check this by running through various historic eras. Consider the eras before any nation states, when power was at its most decentralized. That was also when conflict deaths were at their peak due to tribal warfare.

Then move on to the era of kingdoms and then nation-states, and conflict deaths decrease because power centralization increases. Intra-national conflict goes to zero because of a monopoly on violence over that local geography, leaving only inter-national conflict in the structurally anarchic power vacuum.

The peace of the 90s was because the United States was completely dominant and had no reason to do anything because it controlled everything. As the United States declines and power decentralization increases, moves such as denying China access to oil from Venezuela become actions that are deemed necessary in the new security environment. Or a clash between Thailand and Cambodia becomes a thing that can happen, because there is an absence of a big dog to lay down the law, as unjust as that law may be.

The analogy would be a country with multiple privately owned police forces and no single power. You're going to get conflict. It's a structural phenomenon of how power vacuums work when you plop humans inside of them, and it has nothing to do with morality or markets.

Re: The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

#60
post #18

This is Crimea 2.0. The ideological basis behind the annexation is identical in both instances.

Honestly, as someone who firmly opposes what Putin did, there were better "historical justifications" for Russia to annex Crimea than for the USA to colonize Greenland, a territory that has never been part of the USA. The idea of invading an ally's territory just to steal its resources is particularly shameful and disgusting.
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