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The Post-American Internet

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Re: The Post-American Internet

#51

Post by immibis »

mk89 wrote: post #31
thefz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think internet surveillance is an EU first, you will be delighted to read about PRISM

I think nobody in the EU believes that America is the country of freedom and privacy and anonymity. (Boolean and) I guess what the OP meant is that in EU you might have the police knocking at your door for some reasons you don't have in the USA, not because they don't have data about you, but because in the USA you have some very strong constitutional rights that are really hard to bypass. Twitter, Tiktok, etc could…

Sure they could. You'd just have to answer subpoenas when the police are trying to identify a user, same as in the USA.

You might get a few more of them. Recently a bunch of French people received jail time for repeatedly posting how the president was a pedophile and his wife was a man. Because, you know, harassment is illegal in many European countries. But the only obligation by the service provider, if asked, would be to delete the posts and give the user's IP address.

The EU Digital Services Act is actually a much wider liability shield than the USA's Section 230. I suggest reading it. ISPs ("mere conduits") have basically absolutely immunity, and caches merely have to ensure they make an effort to delete the cached object when the original object disappears (i.e. they have a reasonable expiry time) to be immune. Social media, since it's a content publisher, has more obligations, of course, but they are also not that onerous and things like automated scanning are only required if your site is big enough to afford them.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#52

Post by ben_w »

nurettin wrote: post #20
lelanthran wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure what benefit any country outside of the USA gets for honoring trade agreements that bind them to enforce US anti-circumvention, US copyright, and US DRM. Sanctions? > ircumvention, US copyright, and US DRM. A fortune awaits any country who has the guts to say "you know what, USA, we're going to allow blatantly copying your shit--what are you going to do, tariff us? Oh, wait, you already are!" What does…

EU fines of up to 100s of millions of USD haven't stopped these companies from operating overseas. It is unlikely that they would exit a trillion dollar market because of some self-imposed security laws. Rather the opposite, the hardware would have to be free of whatever invasive security measure there is if EU wanted it. But they are rather xenophobic, so the incentives align.

The companies would choose to operate in the EU if they could.

The US government is throwing its weight around, appeares to be preparing to illegally annex bits of non-EU land in an EU member state, to sow propaganda to fracture the EU itself, and has already sanctioned EU judges for doing their jobs when their job is against US interests.

Non-zero chance they will not have any choice in this. Gut feeling says we're still a long way short of 50:50, but it's just gut feeling.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#53

Post by calgoo »

rdevsrex wrote: post #49

Why not go all the way and establish your own publicly owned central bank and establish an alternative to the dollar? Oh, yeah, the US will send the CIA or the military in and take you out and make you take on IMF debt to ensure your future compliance. Clearly, there are limits to what tech alone can accomplish.

You mean like the EU central bank and the Euro? That's already been in place for 20+ years in the majority of EU countries.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#54

Post by immibis »

rdevsrex wrote: post #49

Why not go all the way and establish your own publicly owned central bank and establish an alternative to the dollar? Oh, yeah, the US will send the CIA or the military in and take you out and make you take on IMF debt to ensure your future compliance. Clearly, there are limits to what tech alone can accomplish.

Like Cory says, the USA is now carrying out its threats regardless of what you do or don't do, so there's no need to care about them any more. There's nothing a country can do to influence whether the USA invades it or not, so it might as well do what it wants instead of what the USA wants.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#55

Post by xeonmc »

thefz wrote: post #23
Quothling wrote: post #4

I've spent a couple of decades in the Danish public sector of digitalisation and in the private sector for global green energy. 10 years ago people would've laughed if you talked about leaving Microsoft and iOS in enterprise. Now we all have contingency plans for just that, and a lot of organisations are already actually doing it. So I would argue that there is more of a crack, but I'm not sure the post-american inte…

If you think internet surveillance is an EU first, you will be delighted to read about PRISM

    As an European it was always hard for me to understand American culture. What was fascinating for me is that they like bragging about their freedom which was weird for me, because I didn't think that I have any less freedom than them. I always thought 'What is the difference'. However after this game I finally understand it. NA is just so fucking free.
[0] https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/76bemv/tie...

Re: The Post-American Internet

#57

Post by evrenesat »

mk89 wrote: post #31
thefz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think internet surveillance is an EU first, you will be delighted to read about PRISM

I think nobody in the EU believes that America is the country of freedom and privacy and anonymity. (Boolean and) I guess what the OP meant is that in EU you might have the police knocking at your door for some reasons you don't have in the USA, not because they don't have data about you, but because in the USA you have some very strong constitutional rights that are really hard to bypass. Twitter, Tiktok, etc could…

Since they can operate in EU, I don't see why they can't be made in EU. There are well known disadvantages that prevents emergence of SV style startups, but I'd argue even that is a good thing.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#58

Post by Thlom »

ares623 wrote: post #19

Maybe countries need to seriously consider stockpiling old hardware. Rather than sending ewaste to Southeast Asia for “recycling”, old laptops and smartphones could be the only things usable in a future fractured world.

They can just buy new hardware from China.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#59

Post by nitwit005 »

ryandrake wrote: post #10

I'm not sure what benefit any country outside of the USA gets for honoring trade agreements that bind them to enforce US anti-circumvention, US copyright, and US DRM. A fortune awaits any country who has the guts to say "you know what, USA, we're going to allow blatantly copying your shit--what are you going to do, tariff us? Oh, wait, you already are!"

A lot of countries are happy to sign anything with regard to copyright, as they have no intention to enforce it.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#60

Post by boudin »

rockskon wrote: post #32
anigbrowl wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With one hand they do so much to protect consumer rights for us citizens, but with the other hand they build a survailance state. The US is doing that too, and has been pretty open about it for years.

Europe wants so very much worse in many cases.

What the US built is already dystopian, there's nothing to lose moving away from that. Things like chat control are not a good thing neither, but adding regulation can also be beneficial and lead to interoperable standards. That's where the US failed big time. E.g. things like having standardised chargers seems like a no brainer but it required regulators to step in for it to happen.
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