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Children and Helical Time

moultano.wordpress.com

51–60 of 130 posts

Re: Children and Helical Time

#51
post #2

I think time perception is contingent on cultural and lifestyle factors, I don't recognise it in my own life. My twenties (chaotic) lasted forever, now in my 30s, this last year in particular felt incredibly long (it was eventful and full of change). I rarely find myself on "autopilot". Is that why?

I think you are on to something. My theory is that the brain is good at compressing memories, so if you do mostly the same things every day it's not stored as a separate memory. I actually felt my 30s as one of the longest periods in my life, because of things that happened in my life

It seems so obvious to me. It's all about what you do with your time, if you're stuck in a boring routine of commute, repetitive work, and a few soulless vacations here and there you'll build virtually no memorable moments and it will all feel like a blur

Move to a new city, get a radically different job, get a kid, switch up your routine, pick up unusual hobbies/interests and every year will feel like a new life. Childhood feels very long because you have to go through mandatory checkpoints imposed from the outside, add that to your adult life and it'll feel the same. Why don't you go get a parachute intro course next weekend? Or rent a car on a race track? Go ice climbing next winter? Join a yoga club, a music class, a reading group, a dance class, &c. try things you don't necessarily want to do and you'll open many doors.

Most humans have a tendency to go the path of least resistance, and in today's world of working from home and unlimited screen based entertainment you can very easily waste decades your life

Re: Children and Helical Time

#52
post #6

> This is a depressing thought to consider in (linear) middle age, but it is hard to escape the feeling that it is essentially true. Childhood memories have an intensity and a vibrancy that it is difficult for the rest of life to match. Could anyone who is extremely fortunate and never had to work for money share their experience on this? I find that the years that I spent on art (playing around, learning new things,…

Last few years I've been my own boss mostly doing whatever I feel like with several years funds comfortable and no real pressure to do or die. Time hasn't really slowed down. I also took a year completely off work in 2016, that one also passed very quickly.

If anything, having new experiences is what seems to slow down time in my experience. Visiting new locations, doing and learning new things. I suppose more things will be new to the young than the old, so it would make sense as an alternative hypothesis.

I've also had a bad tooth ache since the day before Christmas I haven't been able to get dealt with since all the local dentists are off, and it feels like it's been the longest week in my life. Dunno if I'd recommend it as a way of prolonging the subjective experience of time though.

Another anecdote is that last year I quit coffee cold turkey, and a side effect was that time seemed to slow down significantly. A lot of people seem to be reporting this. Make of it what you want. Quitting coffee also sucks quite a lot, though not as bad as week of severe tooth ache.

Re: Children and Helical Time

#53
post #6

> This is a depressing thought to consider in (linear) middle age, but it is hard to escape the feeling that it is essentially true. Childhood memories have an intensity and a vibrancy that it is difficult for the rest of life to match. Could anyone who is extremely fortunate and never had to work for money share their experience on this? I find that the years that I spent on art (playing around, learning new things,…

Last few years I've been my own boss mostly doing whatever I feel like with several years funds comfortable and no real pressure to do or die. Time hasn't really slowed down. I also took a year completely off work in 2016, that one also passed very quickly. If anything, having new experiences is what seems to slow down time in my experience. Visiting new locations, doing and learning new things. I suppose more things…

Oh, my dear, thats hell! > I've also had a bad tooth ache since the day before Christmas Wasnt there any emergency dentist available? In my location, there are those for these reasons.

Re: Children and Helical Time

#54

I'm 22 and since late college things don't excite me the way they used to, even when I enjoy them. I sometimes wonder if this is what happens when people get older and happened to me early, or if it's just a personality trait. The 'vicarious firsts' framing doesn't quite land for me because of that, but the 'urgency that won't let you drift' observation resonates. Maybe what matters isn't renewed wonder but having so…

> I sometimes wonder if this is what happens when people get older and happened to me early, or if it's just a personality trait.

It's a cliché but I (almost 50 years old) have found that when you get older, you notice patterns, Something "new" is often just an incremental improvement or two existing things combined.

Rust doesn't excite me much, and Go seems too boring to use for my side projects. Elixir + Phoenix LiveView is the only "new" thing that has excited me in the past decade, but I can't stand the Elixir syntax. Maybe it's because I have seen so much change during the years? If someone started out with React, a new version seems like a big deal, but to me it is just an incremental improvement.

When I was a kid, a new CPU or GPU had an extreme impact compared to the previous generations. We went from crappy Wolfenstein graphics to Quake in a few years. I have stopped following new releases now, because they don't really do much.

The same applies to mobile phones. The next iphone / samsung model doesn't really motivate me to replace my existing phone.

Re: Children and Helical Time

#55
> The motivation for making school more rewarding and less stultifying should not primarily be its effect on outcomes later in life, but rather that childhood is itself part of life, a very important part.

Almost makes me tear up. 1000 times this.

Re: Children and Helical Time

#57
As someone who thinks a lot about how best to use one's limited time; is child-free by choice; and, who is also interested in the societal value of good parenting... this article drew me in on a number of counts.

The concept of time dilation explored in the article is fascinating. But I think it's possible the author has some wishful thinking about how experience and memory works. Or perhaps is using a plausible formulation as a reverse justification for his own life choices.

Here is how my childhood memories feel to me. Ages 0-14 are like an opaque tunnel, through which my brain and developing body was shot, like a cannonball, in an instant. I have some fragmentary memories of having gone through that tunnel, but they are mere fragment. My 14 year old self, somehow and miraculously, ended up on the other side of that tunnel healthy and of sound mind.

Age 14 is around where something resembling "the recorded video of my early memory" begins. I have clear memory of various episodes from ages 14-18, and this was also a period of intense individual development for me. This was where all my inclinations, passions, and life goals started to come into focus. That turned into full-blown adult individuation in college, where my goal was to pull away entirely from societal/parental expectations and live my own life. In other words: pretty much everything I associate with my adult character had its seed-like start in my age 14-18 period, exactly the period where I was pulling away from my developmental dependence on my parents.

My childhood before then is a blur. That might be a depressing thought for parents -- that this kind of blurred and fragmentary memory of childhood is possible, given that parents often describe this period as one where they are "making family memories" -- but I don't think I'm the only one. Importantly: this doesn’t make early parenting meaningless. Good parenting is ethically and developmentally important even when it doesn’t leave the child with later-retrievable episodic memories. But I don't think the point of parenting is to create said memories. It's to create a healthy child who can develop and individuate on their own in adulthood.

The article talks a lot about childlike wonder, and seeking that in adulthood. I'm all for that. But what's strange is that OP seems to believe the only place to find that childlike wonder is in parenting of your own children. I am sure parenting can be one such way to regain childlike wonder, but surely not the only one. People can reclaim their childlike wonder in sport, art, hobby, play, and travel, among other things. What's more, I know many parents who haven't the slightest bit of childlike wonder when they interact with their children. Or any other children in their family. So I'm not sure it comes as naturally to everyone as OP seems to think it does.

Two adult thinkers on how adult humans spend their time that have interesting thoughts on childlike play are John Cleese and Alan Watts. Cleese discusses it in the context of creativity in his wonderful lecture, summarized here:

https://www.themarginalian.org/2012/04/12/john-cleese-on-cre...

And Watts had this to say about it: "... if you don't have a room in your life for the playful, life's not worth living. 'All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.' But if the only reason for which Jack plays is that he can work better afterwards, he's not really playing. He's just playing because it's good for him! Well, he's not playing at all! You have to be able to cultivate an attitude to life where you're not trying to get anything out of it. You pick up a pebble on the beach and look at it: beautiful! Don't try and get a sermon out of it."

Re: Children and Helical Time

#58
post #34
post #6

> This is a depressing thought to consider in (linear) middle age, but it is hard to escape the feeling that it is essentially true. Childhood memories have an intensity and a vibrancy that it is difficult for the rest of life to match. Could anyone who is extremely fortunate and never had to work for money share their experience on this? I find that the years that I spent on art (playing around, learning new things,…

I, of course, have plenty of vivid memories from childhood. But I've also been fortunate to be able to travel in all senses - quick tourist vacation, a few months backpacking, and multi-year slow travel where I mostly just lived in different places (different nature settings, towns, cities etc). Tourism is generally forgettable and I don't recommend it to anyone - save the money and do something where you live. Backp…

> Backpacking feels meaningful in the moment, but is also largely forgettable.

Was your schedule oversubscribed in these ? I ask because my experience of pleasure travel is very different. More so when there were (i) very little schedule to speak of, other than start and end dates, (ii) had a partner to share the experience of unplanned discovery to share with.

Both, I think, make a significant difference to the experience.

The other biggie are photographs and writing about it.

Re: Children and Helical Time

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family was not wealthy but I got the luck being born in the EU in a country where edu and Healthcare were basically free and you really cannot end up under a bridge unless extreme mental (and drugs issues that follow that) problems. My parents, even though we did not have much, always taught us to never follow orders unless you think they make sense and follow our own path. I guess that is why I mostly have no dif…

Extreme mental and drug issues are always in the picture with those outcomes, though. The real "safety net" when faced with the possibility of real homelessness is to get the hell away from uber-expensive places like SF and move to at least a semi-rural area where getting access to good shelter is going to be orders of magnitude easier. These are not bad places or areas of poverty or marginalization, people have lite…

You say "move", but you must mean "get moved" since homeless people aren't known to have the finances required to travel to another city

Re: Children and Helical Time

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family was not wealthy but I got the luck being born in the EU in a country where edu and Healthcare were basically free and you really cannot end up under a bridge unless extreme mental (and drugs issues that follow that) problems. My parents, even though we did not have much, always taught us to never follow orders unless you think they make sense and follow our own path. I guess that is why I mostly have no dif…

Extreme mental and drug issues are always in the picture with those outcomes, though. The real "safety net" when faced with the possibility of real homelessness is to get the hell away from uber-expensive places like SF and move to at least a semi-rural area where getting access to good shelter is going to be orders of magnitude easier. These are not bad places or areas of poverty or marginalization, people have lite…

This doesn't make any kind of sense. There's plenty of homeless people outside of expensive cities.
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