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Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use

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Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use

#51

Post by pwdisswordfishy »

dartharva wrote: post #11

I think it's more the fact that they lied before nomination than the AI usage itself. Any institution is bound to disqualify a candidate if it discovers it was admitted on false grounds. I wonder if the game directors had actually made their case beforehand, they would have perhaps been let to keep the award. That said, the AI restriction itself is hilarious. Almost all games currently being made would have programme…

> Almost all games currently being made would have programmers using copilot

Which LLM told you that?

Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use

#52

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

NitpickLawyer wrote: post #12
hambes wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but that is a different issue. The use of generative AI for art is being rightfully criticised because it steals from artists. Generative AI for source code learns from developers - who mostly publish their source with licenses that allow this. The quality suffers in both cases and I would personally criticise generative AI in source code as well, but the ethical argument is only against profiting from artists…

> rightfully criticised because it steals from artists. Generative AI for source code learns from developers The double standard here is too much. Notice how one is stealing while the other is learning from? How are diffusion models not "learning from all the previous art"? It's literally the same concept. The art generated is not a 1-1 copy in any way.

IMO, this is key to the issue, learning != stealing. I think it should be acceptable for AI to learn and produce, but not to learn and copy. If end assets infringe on copyright, that should be dealt with the same whether human- or AI-produced. The quality of the results is another issue.

Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use

#53

Post by dartharva »

voidfunc wrote: post #37
dartharva wrote: post #11

I think it's more the fact that they lied before nomination than the AI usage itself. Any institution is bound to disqualify a candidate if it discovers it was admitted on false grounds. I wonder if the game directors had actually made their case beforehand, they would have perhaps been let to keep the award. That said, the AI restriction itself is hilarious. Almost all games currently being made would have programme…

> That said, the AI restriction itself is hilarious. Almost all games currently being made would have programmers using copilot, would they all be disqualified for it? Where does this arbitrary line start from? AI OK: Code AI Bad: Art, Music. It's a double standard because people don't think of code as creative. They still think of us as monkeys banging on keyboards. Fuck 'em. We can replace artists.

> It's a double standard because people don't think of code as creative.

It's more like the code is the scaffolding and support, the art and experience is the core product. When you're watching a play you don't generally give a thought to the technical expertise that went into building the stage and the hall and its logistics, you are only there to appreciate the performance itself - even if said performance would have been impossible to deliver without the aforementioned factors.

Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use

#54

Post by NitpickLawyer »

danielbln wrote: post #34
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a double standard because it's apples and oranges. Code is an abstract way of soldering cables in the correct way so the machine does a thing. Art eludes definition while asking questions about what it means to be human.

I love that in these discussions every piece of art is always high art and some comment on the human condition, never just grunt-work filler, or some crappy display ad. Code can be artisanal and beautiful, or it can be plumbing. The same is true for art assets.

Exactly! Europa Universalis is a work of art, and I couldn't care less if the horse that you can get as one of your rulers is aigen or not. The art is in the fact that you can get a horse as your ruler.

Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use

#55

Post by glimshe »

david_shaw wrote: post #33
conradfr wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a OSS licence that excludes LLM?

I'm not sure about licenses that explicitly forbid LLM use -- although you could always modify a license to require this! -- but GPL licensed projects require that you also make the software you create open source. I'm not sure that LLMs respect that restriction (since they generally don't attibute their code). I'm not even really sure if that clause would apply to LLM generated code, though I'd imagine that it shoul…

They don't require it if you don't include OSS artifacts/code in your shipped product. You can use gcc to build closed source software.

Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use

#56

Post by dartharva »

pwdisswordfishy wrote: post #51
dartharva wrote: post #11

I think it's more the fact that they lied before nomination than the AI usage itself. Any institution is bound to disqualify a candidate if it discovers it was admitted on false grounds. I wonder if the game directors had actually made their case beforehand, they would have perhaps been let to keep the award. That said, the AI restriction itself is hilarious. Almost all games currently being made would have programme…

> Almost all games currently being made would have programmers using copilot Which LLM told you that?

Please, LLM code assistants are ubiquitous enough nowadays with inline code suggestions in vscode on by default. It's an extremely safe claim.

Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use

#57

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

dartharva wrote: post #11

I think it's more the fact that they lied before nomination than the AI usage itself. Any institution is bound to disqualify a candidate if it discovers it was admitted on false grounds. I wonder if the game directors had actually made their case beforehand, they would have perhaps been let to keep the award. That said, the AI restriction itself is hilarious. Almost all games currently being made would have programme…

> Almost all games currently being made would have programmers using copilot

I think that is almost certainly untrue, especially among indie games developers, who are often the most stringent critics of gen ai.

Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use

#58

Post by perching_aix »

blackbrokkoli wrote: post #14
NitpickLawyer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rightfully criticised because it steals from artists. Generative AI for source code learns from developers The double standard here is too much. Notice how one is stealing while the other is learning from? How are diffusion models not "learning from all the previous art"? It's literally the same concept. The art generated is not a 1-1 copy in any way.

It's a double standard because it's apples and oranges. Code is an abstract way of soldering cables in the correct way so the machine does a thing. Art eludes definition while asking questions about what it means to be human.

That's a fun framing. Let me try using it to define art.

Art is an abstract way of manipulating aesthetics so that the person feels or thinks a thing.

Doesn't sound very elusive nor wrong to me, while remaining remarkably similar to your coding definition.

> while asking questions about what it means to be human

I'd argue that's more Philosophy's territory. Art only really goes there to the extent coding does with creativity, which is to say

> the machine does a thing

to the extent a programmer has to first invent this thing. It's a bit like saying my body is a machine that exists to consume water and expel piss. It's not wrong, just you know, proportions and timing.

This isn't to say I classify coding and art as the same thing either. I think one can even say that it is because art speaks to the person while code speaks to the machine, that people are so much more uppity about it. Doesn't really hit the same as the way you framed this though, does it?

Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use

#59

Post by thiht »

skibidithink wrote: post #21

The AI witch hunt claims its first victim, apparently over some placeholder textures. https://english.elpais.com/culture/2025-07-19/the-low-cost-c... > Sandfall Interactive further clarifies that there are no generative AI-created assets in the game. When the first AI tools became available in 2022, some members of the team briefly experimented with them to generate temporary placeholder textures. Upon release, insta…

That’s incredibly harsh. A blanket ban on AI generated assets is dumb as hell. Generating placeholder assets is completely acceptable.

Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use

#60

Post by protimewaster »

spencerflem wrote: post #35
protimewaster wrote: post #5

I wonder what definition of AI they're using? If you go by the definition in some textbooks (e.g., the definition given in the widely used Russell and Norvig text), basically any code with branches in it counts as AI, and thus nearly any game with any procedurally generated content would run afoul of this AI art rule.

[flagged]

It's not meant to be clever. They have a rule that says, in its entirety, "Games developed using generative AI are strictly ineligible for nomination."

Do they count procedural level generation as generative AI? Am I crazy that this doesn't seem clear to me?

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