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AI will kill all the lawyers

spectator.com

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Re: AI will kill all the lawyers

#51

Post by ericmcer »

elicash wrote: post #18

I think theoretically, it's okay for LLMs to write legal briefs, to replace attorneys. Write the best argument you can with whatever tools you want. What worries me is the idea of them replacing JUDGES.

I imagine it would involve 1000s of LLMs outputting a judgement and then if there were significant disparities it would get flagged in some manner.

That's actually the plot of Minority Report, a lot of people think it is about "what if computers could predict crime" but it is really about "What do you do when your 'omniscient' machines disagree with each other".

Either way the idea of getting sent to prison and having 0 human interaction is terrifying.

Re: AI will kill all the lawyers

#52

Post by Verdex »

Legal representation is the sibling of security.

Security itself is a journey, not a destination. To say that you are secure is to say that you have been so clever that nobody else in the history of ever again will ever be as clever as you just were. Even knowing that they can study you being clever.

Even a super intelligent AI might not be able to replace lawyerhood unless it is also dynamically going out into the world and investigating new legal theory, researching old legal theory, socializing with the powers that be to ensure that they accept their approach, and carefully curating clients that can take advantage of the results.

Re: AI will kill all the lawyers

#53

Post by drivingmenuts »

jscottmiller wrote: post #16

Not sure it will replace them, but a tool that allows folks to have a better understanding of the legal system and how to navigate it will certainly impact the existing power systems (of which lawyers are a part).

That sounds just like the argument used to replace programmers and we see what kind of hell that's causing.f

Which is not to say you're wrong, but maybe we should look at ways of making the transition better, easier and less stressful. Perhaps actually giving people a choice, rather than having technocrats ram it down our throats.

Re: AI will kill all the lawyers

#54

Post by bluGill »

echelon wrote: post #11

> ‘My niece is a lovely girl, really smart, great at school, and the other day she told me she wants to be a lawyer. And I thought, “Oh my God, my little niece wants to be a lawyer”, and I flat out told her. I said please do not destroy your life. Do not get into a lifetime of debt for a job that won’t exist in ten years. Or less.’ Bets that this won't happen in just 10 years? DARPA Grand Challenge took 20 years, and…

Lawyer has been a poor earning profession (for the education needed) for a while now. There are a few expensive lawyers who make a lot, but your typical lawyer is not highly paid. This varies by state/country of course, but in general I don't advise going into law because it isn't worth the costs to get in for most. (though just like art, music... there are some exceptions)

Re: AI will kill all the lawyers

#56

Post by simonw »

atmavatar wrote: post #49
simonw wrote: post #9

> I mention the problem of ‘hallucinations’ – when an AI model presents false or fabricated information as factual – and the need for a human face in court. The Sandie Peggie judgment allegedly contained AI-made errors. He waves this all away. ‘Temporary bugs and sentimental preferences. The economic argument is overwhelming.’ As usual with "AI replacing humans", the key thing to consider here is accountability. I wa…

> I want a lawyer armed with LLMs, who's more effective than the previous generations of lawyers. From what we've seen thus far, there's a non-zero chance the lawyer armed with LLMs will submit a brief generated by said LLM without reviewing it, which makes the judge none too happy. Look at how people handle bringing their cell phones with them while driving. Some people won't use it at all. Some will play music (unr…

I want my lawyer armed with LLMs to not do that.

There are some promising AI-driven tools these days that use search against archives of cases to help check that citations aren't garbage. I'm hoping lawyers start using them to help pick apart each other's laziness.

Re: AI will kill all the lawyers

#57

Post by antinomicus »

mikeocool wrote: post #46
jelled wrote: post #20

Just like AI will kill all the software developers... Obviously AI will change the legal industry. But a lawyer will still have an advantage because they know what questions to ask and can provide the AI with the relevant context.

And they know when it’s right and wrong. Recently I asked Claude if I should convert my LLC to an S Corp for tax savings, and it sang the praises of how much I’d save if I did this. When asked my accoutant, he pointed out that since I live in NYC, the S corp would be taxed in such a way that would completely wipe out the tax advantage I’d get elsewhere, and I’d likely end up paying more if I did this.

Did you tell the LLM you were in New York though?

Re: AI will kill all the lawyers

#58

Post by why_at »

Freebytes wrote: post #40

This article talks about martinis about as much as it talks about the careers of lawyers being threatened by AI. The article provides no real justification for its claims outside of anecdotal opinions. The only value of this article is that it results in a discussion in the comments section that provide the actual credence to the claims.

Like so many of these articles about how "AI will/won't do X" it just feels like everyone is speculating.

The only thing I feel confident about is that people are bad at predicting the future. Why can't we just wait and see without all this overconfident guessing?

Re: AI will kill all the lawyers

#59

Post by danaris »

simonw wrote: post #56
atmavatar wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want a lawyer armed with LLMs, who's more effective than the previous generations of lawyers. From what we've seen thus far, there's a non-zero chance the lawyer armed with LLMs will submit a brief generated by said LLM without reviewing it, which makes the judge none too happy. Look at how people handle bringing their cell phones with them while driving. Some people won't use it at all. Some will play music (unr…

I want my lawyer armed with LLMs to not do that. There are some promising AI-driven tools these days that use search against archives of cases to help check that citations aren't garbage. I'm hoping lawyers start using them to help pick apart each other's laziness.

> I want my lawyer armed with LLMs to not do that.

The only way to guarantee that is to have a lawyer not armed with LLMs.

We've seen dozens of examples already of lawyers doing exactly that. (Some of them have then doubled down in court, to their eventual detriment.)

If you're making a habit of using LLMs to draft briefs for you, how long before you just forget to check the cited cases to replace the hallucinated ones with real ones? Or decide not to check, because surely they'll be fine this time...only they're not?

Re: AI will kill all the lawyers

#60

Post by woleium »

xeckr wrote: post #39
hackingonempty wrote: post #5

Law has one of the strongest "unions" in the form of the Bar Association, backed by legal force. You cannot practice law without "passing they bar" as they say. The lawyers who operate the Bar can just decide they wont be replaced and then they wont, AI will remain a tool used by human lawyers.

>You cannot practice law without "passing they bar" You are however entitled to represent yourself without passing the bar, and thus use the AI to help your case. Even for the remaining lawyers, I imagine that their billable hours will crater due to competitive dynamics.

interesting, so you can rep yourself, with assistance from an ai? or maybe someone you hired to use an ai, present as an amicus curiae?
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