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How getting richer made teenagers less free

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Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#51

Post by 1659447091 »

TrackerFF wrote: post #15

I grew up in the late 80s/early 90s, and came from a rural place with a lot of poverty and at best working class people. We'd be outside all day long - being inside was considered a privilege. Weekdays and weekends. Decades later, most of my peers have middle-class jobs. Their kids are barely outside. Their parents are involved with them from morning to evening, or chauffeuring them between sports and other extracurr…

> We'd be outside all day long - being inside was considered a privilege. Weekdays and weekends.

Similar, except in a city. On weekends, when an adult may be home, we get sent outside as a form of grounding -- "outside. now." -- or if we watched too much tv/video games, and wouldn't come back inside til dark. No asking what we did, where we went, only that we came back in the same health we left. Not having parents home after school (11-14 y/o) meant after-school cartoon binge for a couple hours, then outside to roam around with other kids that didn't have adults home. We'd get in trouble if they came home and we were playing video games or watching tv.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#52

Post by Hendrikto »

walthamstow wrote: post #41
lotsofpulp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I teach my kids their biggest risk is a driver distracted by their phone in a vehicle with a hood height at or above the kids’ head height.

Accurate. Oddly enough on this side of the pond most people who would not want to raise their kids in the US would mention school shootings. The real, ubiquitous, daily danger is massive cars and lazy drivers.

Just because you have even bigger problems in the US, that does not mean that is isn’t cause for concern to be the school shooting capital of the world by an enormous margin.

The US have more school shootings than the rest of the world combined. It is not unfounded or irrational to be concerned.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#53

Post by symbogra »

slifin wrote: post #49
reedf1 wrote: post #10

> Around 35% of American families have been investigated by CPS What?? > Fully 50% of Black voters in our poll agreed that allowing a 10-year-old to play unsupervised at a park for a few hours was grounds for a CPS call. 33% of white voters and 37% of Hispanic voters said the same. I am speechless. Has so much changed in the 20 odd years since I was a kid? I was playing outside unsupervised from maybe age 9. What hon…

Cars, I nearly got run over as a kid a few times Now as an adult I'd be worried about cycling around with cars that would hit me in the chest and not the legs on impact Also cars make it very easy for a stranger to pull up and kidnap, parents subconsciously know that and factor it into their decisions There was also youth clubs where I grew up and a BMX track and no phones so play was mostly happening outside Society…

The track that the US political economy is on with the feedback loop caused by government backed fixed term fixed interest loans requires an ever increasing LTV, meaning newer entrants in the housing market will have to accept increasingly precarious positions.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#54

Post by cons0le »

komali2 wrote: post #3

> When teenagers aren’t trusted to walk over to a friend’s house or play in the park, when they almost never have a part-time job where they can earn a paycheck and meet expectations that aren’t purely artificial, then I think it’s much harder for them to have a realistic, non-algorithm-driven worldview and concrete life goals they can work toward. This, and the car-centric design of the American suburb, I think are…

>this resulted in me developing an "internet personality" aka "being a piece of shit.

I'm so glad you got out man. Seriously. You climbed out of a hole that many can't even see.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#55

Post by gherkinnn »

starsky411 wrote: post #2

This remind me of that saying - no original version but it was like: tough times makes tough people, soft times makes soft people. And I hope it’s not true. But indeed the more choices you have in life, the harder it gets to chose the right thing to do.

Why can't this meme die? It is so obviously rubbish. Good times allow for a people to divert more energy to specialisation and growth and might and art and then displace the "hardened" people.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#56

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #6

The constrain isn’t merely financial, it’s broader than that. Teenagers are less free because adults and society have bulldozed the adversity out of teen lives. This sheltering is creating generations that are more - not less - fragile. Generations that know nothing but comfort. They are prisoners of unrealistic expectations of what real life is like.

The adversity is very much there, but it's all emotional and social. What's missing is (mild) physical adversity, and self-directed play and exploration.

Mild somewhat-dangerous-but-not-really play teaches that actions and decisions have consequences, and if you make a mistake it hurts - maybe a lot.

The world is a dangerous place, but some element of risk is both unavoidable and exciting. And it's safe (more or less) to explore and take risks.

When the stress is all emotional and social - high school bullying, status games, cliques and groups, gender wars, random adult authoritarianism - it teaches you that dissent is forbidden and you must conform to the group or you will be punished by it.

You never get the lessons about autonomy and exploration. You're physically comfortable but emotionally underdeveloped with a limited sense of individual agency. There's a fair chance you'll have social PTSD and confuse individuality with permanent rebellion. And your natural state will be permanently-triggered rage about something.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#57

Post by gherkinnn »

wongarsu wrote: post #19
komali2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good times make soft men, bad times make hard men. I never quite understood what the implication was and I always questioned the historical accuracy because no part of history is so easily defined as "good time" or "bad time."

There's the other half, which is often only implied: soft men make bad times, hard men make good times. It's supposed to be cyclical: good times -> soft people -> bad times -> hard people -> good times. Usually directly followed by "back in my days things were tough, but kids these days are just weak" I'm not sure how it's supposed to work out. The US is arguably currently under the control of the baby boomers, who w…

If there was any truth do this then Russia (arguably a "hard place" for most of its history) would be brimming with strong men (it is always "men" in these discussions) who then create which good times exactly?

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#58

Post by m4ck_ »

nrhrjrjrjtntbt wrote: post #26
nicgrev103 wrote: post #8

It's 10pm; do you know where your kids are? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LJeBbhPYBs

10pm is a different animal. Out that late and I dont know where they are? 18+ (Probably some culutral reference I am missing in this video?)

It wasn't uncommon for kids under 18 to be out that late just a couple of decades ago.

In the 90s/early 00's 10pm was like a weekday, school night curfew.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#59

Post by dirkc »

CalRobert wrote: post #48
dirkc wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently had a trip to NL and was very surprised to see jobs for children being advertised there!

Hah, was it Dirk by any chance? (Give your username) There's a lot of kids stocking shelves in the stores here. It's a great way for them to be responsible and earn a few extra euro. I think it's great that the Dutch don't treat their 15 and 16 year olds like babies, like American parents do. I just wish this were available to more families.

I was quite surprised to see grocery stores with my name on it :)

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#60

Post by berdario »

hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #40
starsky411 wrote: post #2

This remind me of that saying - no original version but it was like: tough times makes tough people, soft times makes soft people. And I hope it’s not true. But indeed the more choices you have in life, the harder it gets to chose the right thing to do.

How did we end up in a world where the stupidest memes are considered insightful.

Not only stupid, but also a nazi meme...

Besides the appeal of "though people", the idea that we're also in a cycle, of which the current phase is the worst one, is also basically the Kali Yuga concept, popularised by openly nazi figures like Julius Evola and Savitri Devi

If people are unhappy about their current society, they'd be better off learning about the economic causes, rather than esoteric memes.

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