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Devs say Apple still flouting EU's Digital Markets Act six months on

theregister.com

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Re: Devs say Apple still flouting EU's Digital Markets Act six months on

#51

Post by fsflover »

CursedSilicon wrote: post #49
fsflover wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not wrong, but I'm trying to raise the issue with any service forcing me into the duopoly by showing them my Librem 5. Sometimes it's quite entertaining. This is another venue for making the change.

Now show what banks (and where) have apps targeting that phone Not glorified webpages. Full on apps. Preferably by the banks themselves (sorry bedroom hobbyists, I don't quite trust you with my banking details yet!)

Why don't you like "glorified" webpages? Some banks give you a full control on those. Also, I can run Android apps with Waydroid.

Re: Devs say Apple still flouting EU's Digital Markets Act six months on

#52

Post by charcircuit »

schubidubiduba wrote: post #26
charcircuit wrote: post #18

Give people an inch and they will want a mile. I hope Apple resists these bullies who feel entitled to use all the hardwork Apple put into building their platform.

You got it the wrong way around: Apple feels entitled to use all the hard work developers put into their apps to bolster their own pockets.

Developers are free to delete their apps from Apple's store ar any time. Yes, apps bolster their own pockets, but they also bolster the pockets of the developers themselves.

Re: Devs say Apple still flouting EU's Digital Markets Act six months on

#53

Post by charcircuit »

LocalH wrote: post #33
charcircuit wrote: post #18

Give people an inch and they will want a mile. I hope Apple resists these bullies who feel entitled to use all the hardwork Apple put into building their platform.

Their platform, that runs on devices they don't own?

Yes.

Re: Devs say Apple still flouting EU's Digital Markets Act six months on

#54

Post by drnick1 »

fsflover wrote: post #14
Y-bar wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that the choice is simple. In reality there are only two mobile operating systems where there is any hardware to purchase in my town. These two operating systems are the only mobile devices where my bank (and as far as I am aware other competing banks in my area) offer banking on. There are many variables that goes into the purchase of a mobile phone, the App Store is only one of many. Google is marginally…

Alternatively, GNU/Linux phones can be used. But not all banks support them, of course.

> not all banks support them, of course.

And this is the problem. We should insist on standard web pages for everything, and never allow closed source apps on our devices. Native apps are far less sandboxed and under certain conditions make it trivial to spy on the user by accessing contact lists, other apps installed and more.

AFAIK the only Android derivative that has patched the most obvious security issues of this kind is Graphene.

Re: Devs say Apple still flouting EU's Digital Markets Act six months on

#55

Post by mindcrash »

n8cpdx wrote: post #50
lern_too_spel wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: privacy. That same system for violating privacy works on iOS. Just run a local web server, and there you go. The big difference is in what Apple won't let you do, like get your GPS location without telling Apple or install an app without telling Apple. It looks like Apple finally allowed changing the default navigation app this year, but only in Europe: https://www.androidpolice.com/make-google-maps-app-default-i…

I wonder why meta chose not do the whole localhost thing on iOS. I guess their engineers aren’t creative enough. The defaults aren’t really relevant because they don’t come up. You can disable Siri and use the action button to use any other app as an assistant.

iOS apps can not create a network connection without explicit consent from the user.

And given all the privacy breaches Meta's engineers did manage to succesfully execute on iOS until now, given the sandbox restrictions, they are in fact pretty creative if you ask me.

Don't believe for a second you are safe from these fuckers on either Android or iOS.

Re: Devs say Apple still flouting EU's Digital Markets Act six months on

#56

Post by mindcrash »

n8cpdx wrote: post #46
lern_too_spel wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android is strictly superior to iOS in terms of privacy. On iOS, you can't even get your location without sending it to Apple or install an app without telling Apple which one. Unlike iOS, you can even replace your default maps app with a fully offline app. User choice is the key to ensuring privacy. Google Fit was released in 2014 and implemented data migration to Health Connect when that launched. Similarly, Samsun…

Google Health Connect is still not mature. Believe me, if it was, I’d have likely at least attempted to switch back to Android by now. [1] Apple Maps can be uninstalled, and many people rely on Google Maps. There are plenty of alternatives. I like how convenient the iOS APIs make it to choose alternatives. The Transit app can read the address information from my calendar (a caldav calendar self-hosted on Synology) wh…

Re: Google Maps - I really like Organic Maps as a open source privacy friendly Google Maps replacement. They use geographical data from OpenStreetMaps so "pretty good" is a understatement.

They have developed a Android app (available through different and aforementioned distribution channels, ofcourse), but they have one for iOS too!

iOS: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/organic-maps-offline-map/id156...

Droid - Play: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=app.organicmap...

Droid - Obtainium: https://github.com/organicmaps/organicmaps/wiki/Installing-O...

Droid - F-Droid: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/app.organicmaps/

Re: Devs say Apple still flouting EU's Digital Markets Act six months on

#57

Post by troupo »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #37
troupo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that you can use one subscription anywhere and have always been paying outside of the App Store. Why can't those services show a link in their app to their page without Apple claiming it's owed 27% of the sale?

In the US you can because of the judgement against Apple. When you link outside of the store, Apple gets nothing. Even in the store, Apple charges 15% if your revenue is below $1 million and charges 15% for renewals after the first year.

> In the US you can because of the judgement against Apple.

Indeed. It took a court battle, and holding Apple in contempt of court, and perjury by one of Apple's executives before Apple was forced to do it (did it comply?).

Why not everywhere?

> Even in the store, Apple charges 15% if your revenue is below $1 million and charges 15% for renewals after the first year.

No, Apple was going to charge 27% on sales happening outside of the App Store, if linked in the app.

Also, you keep trying to diminish/dismiss this as if was no big deal.

Also, the latest court order was a victory for Apple, not for devs. Apple, again, can charge commission in external links, restrict language in those links etc.

Re: Devs say Apple still flouting EU's Digital Markets Act six months on

#58

Post by troupo »

bsimpson wrote: post #42
troupo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think Apple should 100% support PWAs with no shenanigans Where "support PWA" and "no shenanigans" are which of the ever shifting sets of APIs?

I get the point you're making (that standards evolve, and Apple will drag its feet again if it sees a profit), but that doesn't change that they've been gating functionality behind app-only APIs for decades to grow their walled garden and make the rest of us worse off for it. You shouldn't have to install things on your phone. Most "apps" should just be websites, with a bookmark if you so choose.

> I get the point you're making (that standards evolve, and Apple will drag its feet again if it sees a profit)

No, that's not my point.

My point is that there's no such thing as PWA. There's a lose collection of standards, and everyone choses a set that benefits their narrative when defining PWAs.

For a very long time Apple supported all APIs (except maybe notifications) that even Google defined as necessary for something to be a PWA. Didn't stop people from pretending that this is somehow not PWA.

> Most "apps" should just be websites, with a bookmark if you so choose.

As Android shows, even there no one wants that, and there are very few PWAs of note.

Re: Devs say Apple still flouting EU's Digital Markets Act six months on

#59

Post by troupo »

tt24 wrote: post #43
troupo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've mixed up your bullies. It's Apple which is the bully.

No I think he had it right the first time. It’s Apple’s platform. They should have the right to do as they like with it.

1. Users paid for it. So it's not entirely Apple's.

Also, Mac is also Apple's platform.

2. Why would Apple be entitled, for example, for any money that people pay to a service outside of Apple's platform?

3. Apple is a part of duopoly for devices which are integral part of life. No, they don't get to dictate everything that's happening on their platform

4. All EU said: behave, be more competitive. Apple behaves as we have seen: a cross between a bully and a petulant child

Re: Devs say Apple still flouting EU's Digital Markets Act six months on

#60

Post by troupo »

charcircuit wrote: post #52
schubidubiduba wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got it the wrong way around: Apple feels entitled to use all the hard work developers put into their apps to bolster their own pockets.

Developers are free to delete their apps from Apple's store ar any time. Yes, apps bolster their own pockets, but they also bolster the pockets of the developers themselves.

Devs might have deleted their apps from AppStore, but Apple literally doesn't allow to distribute software any other way, and even in the EU where it oretends to allow competing AppStores, it still interjects itself into the process
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