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The ultra-rich are claiming an increasing share of global wealth

lemonde.fr

51–60 of 71 posts

Re: The ultra-rich are claiming an increasing share of global wealth

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New sources of income will inevitably be the money printer.

And where do you think the indefinitly raising wealth of the top 10% comes from? I think you should look into modern monetary theory, MMT.

Yes I’m aware but can you describe how redistribution can work in this case? Where does the new money come from? If poor people are spending more now then someone has to spend less. Who is it?

Re: The ultra-rich are claiming an increasing share of global wealth

#52

If you take any ancient or not so ancient civilization or kingdom, all the wealth including land and people's lives belonged to king/imperator which was appointed by god or something like that. Isn't is exactly the same with the system we have now? The question we have to ask is about 99% of population of peasants who work 8h a day same as they did in Mesopotamia. Do they have a living standard, healthcare, possibili…

Eventually that king will demand more and more. Humans are just fundamentally incapable of wielding that much wealth and thus power. And the pattern repeats again and again and again: billionaires actively lobby to destroy the livelihoods of huge swaths of people, destroy the environment, kill jobs or complete companies, do whatever they feel is necessary just so they can get even more money.

Re: The ultra-rich are claiming an increasing share of global wealth

#53

> Together, they now own three times more than the poorest half of humanity, or 2.8 billion adults. While the gap has stabilized since the end of the Covid-19 pandemic, it has grown sharply over recent decades: Back in 1995, the 0.001% held "only" twice as much as the poorest half. Important context: here debt is counted as negative. This means a person with no debt but zero wealth also owns more wealth than bottom 2…

Yes, people underwrite their own debt with their future labor. Economists don’t count this leverage on future labor as wealth for the poor but for some reason count it for the rich after renaming it to bonds.

Re: The ultra-rich are claiming an increasing share of global wealth

#54

> Together, they now own three times more than the poorest half of humanity, or 2.8 billion adults. While the gap has stabilized since the end of the Covid-19 pandemic, it has grown sharply over recent decades: Back in 1995, the 0.001% held "only" twice as much as the poorest half. Important context: here debt is counted as negative. This means a person with no debt but zero wealth also owns more wealth than bottom 2…

Why is it misleading? Debt is negative wealth. Being indebted to the very rich puts you lower than people who at least have nothing. Would it be less misleading for you if they silently ignored bottom 20% of people?

Because of the lifestyle you can live while in debt. If you're driving expensive cars and living in nice houses and eating good food because you pay for it with a credit card, sure, you're in debt, but your life is better than someone that isn't using a credit card to pay for things. Are you going hungry? is the question.

Re: The ultra-rich are claiming an increasing share of global wealth

#55
post #44

If you take any ancient or not so ancient civilization or kingdom, all the wealth including land and people's lives belonged to king/imperator which was appointed by god or something like that. Isn't is exactly the same with the system we have now? The question we have to ask is about 99% of population of peasants who work 8h a day same as they did in Mesopotamia. Do they have a living standard, healthcare, possibili…

This is very close to saying you wouldn't be against slavery. A slave could be given a decent quality of life. Does that mean slavery is acceptable? A person with 50 bazillion will be able to make you a slave if he wants to.

Slaves are free to think that slavery isn't acceptable. Always have been.

Oh, sure, you aren't a slave. You can't be bought and sold like property. But try going a few months without a paycheck and tell me how that goes. And if you happened to get lucky at some point and escaped wage slavery - you have to be cognizant of the fact that most didn't, and never will, by design.

Modern wage slavery vs whatever they had in Mesopotamia is just details of the perks that the owners decide to hand out.

Re: The ultra-rich are claiming an increasing share of global wealth

#56

If you take any ancient or not so ancient civilization or kingdom, all the wealth including land and people's lives belonged to king/imperator which was appointed by god or something like that. Isn't is exactly the same with the system we have now? The question we have to ask is about 99% of population of peasants who work 8h a day same as they did in Mesopotamia. Do they have a living standard, healthcare, possibili…

So the past was shitty too? You don't care? Okay, well some of us do. Wealth grants power. Opinions from money matter gain greater reach and traction, and these very quickly turn into influence and power. The current US administration clearly shows how wielding power for your own ends gives you money. It's a toxic cycle that rewards grift instead of work. You don't care, but this is a serious problem for society beca…

Preach, brother! Because the ultra-rich surely weren't taking over the world under the previous administration!

Re: The ultra-rich are claiming an increasing share of global wealth

#57

If you take any ancient or not so ancient civilization or kingdom, all the wealth including land and people's lives belonged to king/imperator which was appointed by god or something like that. Isn't is exactly the same with the system we have now? The question we have to ask is about 99% of population of peasants who work 8h a day same as they did in Mesopotamia. Do they have a living standard, healthcare, possibili…

Peasants worked ~14 hours a day, and they had no healthcare or ability to retire. The reason you work 8 hours a day, have health care, and the ability to retire is because the 19th and 20th centuries saw an unprecedented transfer of wealth and power from the rich to everyone else, which manifested in labor laws, pensions, etc. Unless you can prove otherwise, the default assumption needs to be that consolidation of wealth will lead to all those privileges being erased.

Re: The ultra-rich are claiming an increasing share of global wealth

#58

If you take any ancient or not so ancient civilization or kingdom, all the wealth including land and people's lives belonged to king/imperator which was appointed by god or something like that. Isn't is exactly the same with the system we have now? The question we have to ask is about 99% of population of peasants who work 8h a day same as they did in Mesopotamia. Do they have a living standard, healthcare, possibili…

Peasants worked ~14 hours a day, and they had no healthcare or ability to retire. The reason you work 8 hours a day, have health care, and the ability to retire is because the 19th and 20th centuries saw an unprecedented transfer of wealth and power from the rich to everyone else, which manifested in labor laws, pensions, etc. Unless you can prove otherwise, the default assumption needs to be that consolidation of we…

> Unless you can prove otherwise, the default assumption needs to be that consolidation of wealth will lead to all those privileges being erased.

And the trend has already started. The latest budget big will make healthcare inaccessible to mire Americans.

Re: The ultra-rich are claiming an increasing share of global wealth

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the past was shitty too? You don't care? Okay, well some of us do. Wealth grants power. Opinions from money matter gain greater reach and traction, and these very quickly turn into influence and power. The current US administration clearly shows how wielding power for your own ends gives you money. It's a toxic cycle that rewards grift instead of work. You don't care, but this is a serious problem for society beca…

Preach, brother! Because the ultra-rich surely weren't taking over the world under the previous administration!

This has been happening for a very long time. The current administration is just worse and/or more blatant about it than previous ones.

So I agree with your sarcasm and I also agree with the parent comment that the current admin is doing a better job "clearly showing" how this works to everyone.

Re: The ultra-rich are claiming an increasing share of global wealth

#60
post #43

> Together, they now own three times more than the poorest half of humanity, or 2.8 billion adults. While the gap has stabilized since the end of the Covid-19 pandemic, it has grown sharply over recent decades: Back in 1995, the 0.001% held "only" twice as much as the poorest half. Important context: here debt is counted as negative. This means a person with no debt but zero wealth also owns more wealth than bottom 2…

while debt might be well marketed as acceptable, I worry that you have allowed yourself to consider it not real: if someone is in debt to the bank for the majority of their homes value of 300k while earning 50k PA and then someone else pays 10k rent PA but earns 40k PA then the person on 40k is still wealthier

Not quite - because the person with the 300k house still owns the house. They have a 300k asset and <300k in debt. (assuming house value didn't crash after they bought it.
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