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A 'toaster with a lens': The story behind the first handheld digital camera

bbc.com

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Re: A 'toaster with a lens': The story behind the first handheld digital camera

#51

Post by kragen »

qingcharles wrote: post #47
kragen wrote: post #27

The popular notion that "Kodak invented the thing that killed them" is basically nonsense. Steve Sasson's tale of technical struggle in 01975 at Kodak is real, but dozens of other people were doing the same thing at the same time at different companies, or in their dormitories, because at that point the problem of building a handheld digital camera had been reduced to a problem that one guy could solve with off-the-s…

It's interesting that you differentiate between analog and digital electronic cameras. My first "digital" camera was one of the Canon Ion ones that use floppy discs but actually record the photos in analog, so technically just an "electronic camera", but was marketed as a "Still Video Camera" (!). You had to use a video capture card to get the images into the PC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Floppy https://www…

Holy shit, this is amazing. I had no idea anything like this ever existed.

Re: A 'toaster with a lens': The story behind the first handheld digital camera

#52

Post by kalleboo »

sgerenser wrote: post #22
GlibMonkeyDeath wrote: post #19

I'd encourage people to look at the history of Fujifilm (the Japanese peer to Kodak) to see why they didn't fail, but Kodak did. https://petapixel.com/why-kodak-died-and-fujifilm-thrived-a-... TL;DR: Fujifilm diversified quickly, Kodak clung to the film business for far too long.

That’s not an accurate summary of the article. The problem was that Kodak stuck to the photography business for too long. As the article states, in the early 2000s they were the number one seller of digital cameras. It just turns out making consumer digital cameras was a “crappy business” as their CEO went on to say. Fujifilm diversified into healthcare, cosmetics, and making LCD display films.

What's crazy is that Fujifilm now, once again, makes more money on photographic film than anything else they do, thanks to how popular the Instax instant cameras are.

That's just how wildly profitable film is.

Re: A 'toaster with a lens': The story behind the first handheld digital camera

#53

Post by Sharlin »

syncsynchalt wrote: post #43
Sharlin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if any exist on the internet and if the camera is still functional. Edit: it's very likely that no photos exist because the tapes were being reused and there are many reasons why the camera has been nonfunctional for a long time now.

Here's an example image: https://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2022/09/Prorotype-Digit... Captured on Kodak film, I suspect.

I wonder if that's actually original capture or just an emulation for the purposes of the exhibit.

Re: A 'toaster with a lens': The story behind the first handheld digital camera

#54

Post by expedition32 »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #15

So wild. The wire-wrap boards are truly frightening to look at. And the photos in the article of the old "instamatic" Kodak film cameras (especially that 110 pocket camera) suddenly brought back to my mind that formaldehyde-like smell of developer chemicals when I worked at a One-Hour-Photo lab when in high school.

The first spy satellites had to literally eject their film back into orbit to be picked up by the CIA and the pictures were then developed in a dark room.

Re: A 'toaster with a lens': The story behind the first handheld digital camera

#55

Post by kragen »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #16
Hnrobert42 wrote: post #14

Sometimes I think a lot of myself. Sometimes I don't. During the times I do, I console myself about my lack of success by thinking that I have never been in the right place at the right time. But had I been in that place at that time, I would not have invented the digital camera. That guy Sasson was clearly capable far beyond the rest of us.

That's a poignant observation. There are "times and places" for things. And whether you or I would have been "the right person" at that time is hard to know. I consider Wozniak (obvious example) who was at the "right time and place" in the early 1970's. He at the engineering capital of the U.S. (Silicon Valley — already known by that name at the time) knowing adults in engineering fields that could get him otherwise…

The Apple's technical quality was head and shoulders above the other PCs of the epoch. It did much more with less hardware than its contemporaries like Altair, IMSAI, Osborne, Kaypro, TRS-80, Heathkit, the PET, the Atari 400, the TI-99/4, Datapoint's products, and the VT100, which contained all the hardware needed for a PC without being programmable. That's a big part of why those other smart kids' companies mostly failed: their products were uncompetitive with things like the Apple and the Commodore 64.

Woz had a serious brain injury in a plane crash in February 01981 (https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/220512), and I think that's when he lost his technical edge. Also, though, he was more interested in flying planes and organizing rock concerts at that point. You could imagine an alternate history where Apple took CPU design in-house in 01981 instead of 02011 or whenever.

Burrell Smith was using PALs in the first Macintosh prototypes in 01979, and the eventual Macintosh was built around the so-called Integrated Burrell Machine (replaced with more expensive but less risky PALs for the final design), which was critical to getting a competitive product out the door. The Apple III that year did have a custom "Integrated Woz Machine", not designed by Woz, and while its hardware design was disastrous, that was in spite of the IWM, not because of it. There was still plenty of opportunity for Woz's specialty of ultra-efficient digital logic design to provide a competitive edge.

Re: A 'toaster with a lens': The story behind the first handheld digital camera

#56

Post by Hnrobert42 »

kragen wrote: post #55
JKCalhoun wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a poignant observation. There are "times and places" for things. And whether you or I would have been "the right person" at that time is hard to know. I consider Wozniak (obvious example) who was at the "right time and place" in the early 1970's. He at the engineering capital of the U.S. (Silicon Valley — already known by that name at the time) knowing adults in engineering fields that could get him otherwise…

The Apple's technical quality was head and shoulders above the other PCs of the epoch. It did much more with less hardware than its contemporaries like Altair, IMSAI, Osborne, Kaypro, TRS-80, Heathkit, the PET, the Atari 400, the TI-99/4, Datapoint's products, and the VT100, which contained all the hardware needed for a PC without being programmable. That's a big part of why those other smart kids' companies mostly f…

I am curious why you write years with a leading zero. Future proofing?

Re: A 'toaster with a lens': The story behind the first handheld digital camera

#57

Post by Hnrobert42 »

dotancohen wrote: post #38
Hnrobert42 wrote: post #14

Sometimes I think a lot of myself. Sometimes I don't. During the times I do, I console myself about my lack of success by thinking that I have never been in the right place at the right time. But had I been in that place at that time, I would not have invented the digital camera. That guy Sasson was clearly capable far beyond the rest of us.

It's also interesting to note _why_ Sasson thought that an electronic camera with no moving parts was possible: Star Trek. That was his literal inspiration for the camera that was intended to annoy mechanical engineers by having no mechanical parts.

That's great! I often measure technological progress by how close we are to TNG. Like, there is a new lithotripsy wand that breaks up kidney stones with ultrasound. That feels like something you would see Beverly Crusher use in sick bay.

Side note, the wand was developed to solve for: trip to Mars -> bone density loss -> minerals in blood -> debilitating kidney stone 1 year from a hospital.

Re: A 'toaster with a lens': The story behind the first handheld digital camera

#58

Post by kragen »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #56
kragen wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Apple's technical quality was head and shoulders above the other PCs of the epoch. It did much more with less hardware than its contemporaries like Altair, IMSAI, Osborne, Kaypro, TRS-80, Heathkit, the PET, the Atari 400, the TI-99/4, Datapoint's products, and the VT100, which contained all the hardware needed for a PC without being programmable. That's a big part of why those other smart kids' companies mostly f…

I am curious why you write years with a leading zero. Future proofing?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46257598

Re: A 'toaster with a lens': The story behind the first handheld digital camera

#59

Post by ronsor »

immibis wrote: post #45
ronsor wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they vowed never to engage in technology sharing with American companies ever again If this were really the case, I'm surprised the US government didn't engage in antitrust action.

Very US-centric comment. The US can't force entities of an entirely separate country to share technology.

Not directly, but the US can and often does sabotage foreign businesses' operations in the US if they don't comply.

Re: A 'toaster with a lens': The story behind the first handheld digital camera

#60

Post by IAmBroom »

wkat4242 wrote: post #23
WangComputers wrote: post #17

Very few people understand the real reason why Kodak failed to dominate the digital world. It actually dates back to a 300 million dollar lawsuit which Honeywell won against Minolta over a patent for an autofocus system. The Japanese camera companies were so outraged over this perceived injustice that they vowed never to engage in technology sharing with American companies ever again and this ended up crippling Kodak…

But kodak did do digital cameras. My first one was a Kodak.

"Failed to dominate" != "did not make any".
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