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Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

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Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#51

Post by JKCalhoun »

supportengineer wrote: post #32

I’ve noticed Honda puts an emphasis on reducing stress. I have a 20 year old Honda which still runs fine because everything about it seems “overbuilt” - other owners say it runs fine without coolant, oil, etc - just keeps plugging along.

You reminded me of a stunt/promotion I saw on TV in the 1970's where they drained the oil from a Japanese import and then ran the engine (red-lined it as I recall, perhaps a brick on the accelerator) until they blew the engine.

This was when there was a lot of grousing about those cheap (and fuel efficient!) Japanese cars catching on in the U.S. market.

Hilariously, the Japanese car just kept running and they had to intervene — maybe drain the radiator?

I wish I could find something about it but even ChatGPT comes up empty handed. Maybe it was a half-time stunt? I feel like it was in a stadium anyway.

(My first car was a used 1974 Datsun B210.)

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#52

Post by justincormack »

Lio wrote: post #4

When I was a kid I wanted a classic Mini with a transplanted Honda K-Series engine. It's a big engine for that little car but I'd completely forgotten about them over the years. It's wild that people are still doing this: https://potentialmotorsport.com/ I might have to reserect that dream. :D

I frine of mine had one many years ago, was weird watching poeples faces as they got overtaken on the motorway by a mini doing 90mph.

The suspension wasnt really up for that.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#53

Post by Aurornis »

The headline isn’t really true. The K series of engines has been in production for 25 years but it has been redesigned along the way.

The article mentions this further down:

> The K20C is Honda's current-generation of the K-Series range, upgraded to deliver strong real-world efficiency and long-term reliability across the Honda and Acura catalogs. It's also a redesign that meets stricter global emissions rules and tighter thermal demands that come with modern turbocharging.

The original K20A has been out of production for a long time.

Each iteration of the engine shares a lot in common with the previous iteration, but the redesigns have been significant enough that I wouldn’t say it’s accurate to claim that one engine has been in production for 25 years.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#54

Post by potato3732842 »

paddy_m wrote: post #46
potato3732842 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of bigger engines are running right on the edge of oiling problems these days. With fuel economy rules being what they are it's just how it is. GM isn't special in this regard. Ford is killing a lot of cams and lifters (a problem GM fought through some years ago). Meanwhile Toyota[1] is recalling blown up turbo v6s left and right (for problems that you can't just dump different oil in to solve) because they did…

I’d love to read about how emissions / fuel economy is causing the oiling problems. Any articles? Would putting an aftermarket oil pump in these modern engines protect them or is it a deeper design issue?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbEdr6Q6cKw

They spec the thinnest stuff they can get away with to add .0001mpg. Multiply that by all the Chevy 1500s GM makes or F150s Ford makes and you see the draw.

Sometimes it turns out that the thinnest stuff they can get away with just not quite thick enough at the margins or in transient conditions. And of course they stretch out the oil change interval to reduce on-paper TCO as well which doesn't help.

You can mitigate this with thicker oil (what GM did for the recall) by can go too far and create other oiling issues because thick oil drains back slower and going to some super high spec 0-W- Euro oil may cause other problems related to soot and sludge so there's no silver bullet.

The "safe" advice most people give out is to use whatever the version of your owners manual says to use for oil.

And if you have a high strung turbo engine you ought to take your oil change intervals seriously.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#56

Post by officeplant »

jeffbee wrote: post #28
kleiba wrote: post #15

I don't think that lack of reliability is the key factor for why new motors are still being developed. Fuel efficiency or changing emission standards are two points that come to mind that drive further optimizations.

Perhaps that's what's remarkable about these? They had architectures that could meet 2025 emissions standards, 25 years ago. That said the Honda "L" series engines are just as long-lived and are the even more efficient variety.

My favorite fact I used to tell people when I owned a 2008 Honda Fit was that parts of the L-Series engines was from Honda Powersport's Boat Motor lines. (the crankshaft if memory isn't failing me)

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#57

Post by Aurornis »

kleiba wrote: post #15

I don't think that lack of reliability is the key factor for why new motors are still being developed. Fuel efficiency or changing emission standards are two points that come to mind that drive further optimizations.

The engine series in this article (Honda K-series) has been redeveloped over its lifetime too. The original K20A was only produced for about a decade.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#58

Post by potato3732842 »

jabl wrote: post #50
roflchoppa wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coolant sure, my RSX has a radiator leak for the past 2 years. Oil not so much.

Just pour coolant in via the oil cap. It'll be fine. /s

On older heavy equipment of low value and high difficulty servicing (think like a forklift or skid steer) it's not uncommon to replace the coolant with oil to mitigate a head gasket issue and simply drain some oil and add to the coolant on some semblance of a schedule.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#60

Post by [deleted] »

pmontra wrote: post #30

That's a series of engines, not a single model. The FIAT FIRE [1] series has been in production for 36 years from 1985 to 2021 and, maybe you wouldn't expect it from FIAT, those engines were reliable. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fully_Integrated_Robotised_Eng...

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