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Green card interviews end in handcuffs for spouses of U.S. citizens

nytimes.com

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Re: Green card interviews end in handcuffs for spouses of U.S. citizens

#51

Post by foogazi »

nxobject wrote: post #2

A note that it's easy to "overstay" a visa when waiting for a green card interview - the wait times are often in the 6-16 month range, and if you leave the country you'll be considered to have abandoned your "petition to adjust status". It's a catch-22, and it looks like the only recourse is for an immigration lawyer to file a habeas corpus petition in federal court.

> It's a catch-22

What do immigration attorneys recommend in this scenario?

I don’t get the catch-22, time’s up & you leave

Happens to H1Bs all the time

Re: Green card interviews end in handcuffs for spouses of U.S. citizens

#52

Post by aikinai »

nxobject wrote: post #34
anon291 wrote: post #23

While I personally find no objection to these spouses remaining here, I don't see what is really supposed to concern me from a legal perspective. There is no right to residency of migration in general. I do agree we ought to change the law to be make it easier for spouses of citizens, but if you overstay a visa you should expect detention. However from a moral standpoint I find the infant child separation abhorrent a…

> if you overstay a visa you should expect detention Again, though, there's a catch-22. Wait times until you're even notified about your interview appointment date are long and unpredictable.

The article strongly misrepresents this, and they were almost certainly not detained for over-staying, but likely for fraudulent entry. See my other comment.

Re: Green card interviews end in handcuffs for spouses of U.S. citizens

#53

Post by jmyeet »

nxobject wrote: post #43
jmyeet wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is false. If you get married as an F1 student, it's completely fine (and encouraged) to continue your studies under your F1 visa while your I130 and I485 are pending. There are differences here if you're marrying a US citizen vs a green card holder. If you marry a green card holder, you must maintain your status until you adjust status with your I485. If you marry a US citizen, being out of status is forgiven. I…

> If you discontinue your studies, USCIS (particularly under this administration) might try and argue you obtained your student visa fraudulently to deny your marriage petition. The best thing you can do is complete your studies and then, if applicable, obtain OPT to further maintain status. There are two things that I'm not sure about: – Is the distinction between studying (regardless of status), vs. being in status…

You can have two (or more) separate petitions with USCIS.

For example, if you get sponsored by an employer for a green card and you marry a US citizen, you might ask which green card should you pursue? The answer is both. This is fine and encouraged.

This also comes up with people who apply for asylum. This can take years to adjudicate. What if they get married to a US citizen in the meantime? Generally, the advice is to maintain your asylum application AND apply for your marriage-based green card.

This doesn't just apply to green cards either. If you work on an H1B, it's completely fine to apply for a green card (through employment and/or marriage) at the same time. Some will point out that the H1B is a so-called dual intent visa that doesn't preclude immigrant intent but that's not really what that means because you can adjust status to a green card on a non-immigrant intent visa too.

"Immigrant intent" here really means if a consulate will issue you the visa overseas and if CBP will let you into the country if you've shown immigrant intent (which usually means filing an I130 or similar). Once someone files an I130 for you, you'll not be granted a student or visitor's visa from outside the US and if you have either, you might be denied entry at the border. Because those aren't dual intent visas.

A red flag for USCIS for visa fraud is applying for an F1 visa, coming to the US, stopping studying and getting married. To them it looks like you committed immigration fraud just to come to the US.

That's why I say you should continue your studies (and also not get married in the first few months upon entering the US on a student visa).

So there's really no studying out of status per se. If you continue your studies, your F1 is still valid. When you get your EAD or green card, you can study with that and terminate your F1 status.

If you fall out of status on an F1 for a certain period of time it might be difficult or even impossible to resume student status to study at the same or another institution. I'm honestly not familiar with the rules around this.

But you're just not really going to be studying in the US without any status.

Re: Green card interviews end in handcuffs for spouses of U.S. citizens

#54

Post by nxobject »

foogazi wrote: post #51
nxobject wrote: post #2

A note that it's easy to "overstay" a visa when waiting for a green card interview - the wait times are often in the 6-16 month range, and if you leave the country you'll be considered to have abandoned your "petition to adjust status". It's a catch-22, and it looks like the only recourse is for an immigration lawyer to file a habeas corpus petition in federal court.

> It's a catch-22 What do immigration attorneys recommend in this scenario? I don’t get the catch-22, time’s up & you leave Happens to H1Bs all the time

The "overstay" was scare quotes – you're allowed to stay.

Re: Green card interviews end in handcuffs for spouses of U.S. citizens

#55

Post by kaashif »

mcphage wrote: post #30
poplarsol wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You absolutely can leave the country. You just aren't entitled to permanent residency as a result.

[flagged]

Why is that ghoulish? I disagree with the policy, but it's fundamentally different to force someone to leave and to force them to stay.

People are being forced to leave.

Re: Green card interviews end in handcuffs for spouses of U.S. citizens

#57

Post by nxobject »

jmyeet wrote: post #53
nxobject wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you discontinue your studies, USCIS (particularly under this administration) might try and argue you obtained your student visa fraudulently to deny your marriage petition. The best thing you can do is complete your studies and then, if applicable, obtain OPT to further maintain status. There are two things that I'm not sure about: – Is the distinction between studying (regardless of status), vs. being in status…

You can have two (or more) separate petitions with USCIS. For example, if you get sponsored by an employer for a green card and you marry a US citizen, you might ask which green card should you pursue? The answer is both. This is fine and encouraged. This also comes up with people who apply for asylum. This can take years to adjudicate. What if they get married to a US citizen in the meantime? Generally, the advice i…

I see what you mean now – thanks for clarifying for me.

Re: Green card interviews end in handcuffs for spouses of U.S. citizens

#58

Post by sam-cop-vimes »

aikinai wrote: post #50
sam-cop-vimes wrote: post #46

I am surprised people are willing to put up with this sort inhumane treatment. A person I know has been waiting for 16+ years for his green card. They've very rarely traveled out of the USA together as a family because they were afraid they might be a problem getting back in. The people I know are not even desperate migrants where this sort of treatment is still better than the lives they are living - yet they still…

Supply and demand. The US is by far the top place people want to be, so however poorly they treat applicants, there will still be an infinite supply of people willing to put up with it.

I get that, but the kind of white collar workers who are putting up with this have options all over the world. Why would even such people put up with it?

Re: Green card interviews end in handcuffs for spouses of U.S. citizens

#59

Post by iscoelho »

foogazi wrote: post #51
nxobject wrote: post #2

A note that it's easy to "overstay" a visa when waiting for a green card interview - the wait times are often in the 6-16 month range, and if you leave the country you'll be considered to have abandoned your "petition to adjust status". It's a catch-22, and it looks like the only recourse is for an immigration lawyer to file a habeas corpus petition in federal court.

> It's a catch-22 What do immigration attorneys recommend in this scenario? I don’t get the catch-22, time’s up & you leave Happens to H1Bs all the time

Your immigration attorney will advise that you overstay. If you do not, your application will be abandoned.

Re: Green card interviews end in handcuffs for spouses of U.S. citizens

#60

Post by tpmoney »

jackjeff wrote: post #28
aikinai wrote: post #19

As an American with a foreign-spouse who went through the green card application long before Trump, these stories are heart-breaking but also what I expected. I guess these couples and lawyers were just counting on lax enforcement? But this was never allowed. The article is very light on details, but implies all of these spouses travelled to the US on a visa waiver (or similar) and then applied for a green card. Ente…

So the right process is to request for a K1 fiancé visa which takes over a year?! I can see why people were tempted to cut corners, especially given past tolerance…

> I can see why people were tempted to cut corners, especially given past tolerance…

Which is one of the reasons that the pre-trump executive orders that granted leniency and amnesty at times were all terrible terrible things to do. We really have a problem in this country where we've decided that the laws suck, but we don't want to do the hard part of changing the law, so we just decide to ignore it. Until at some point someone comes along and decides to enforce the law and now a whole bunch of people who were acting on the de facto state of the law now have to deal with the consequences of the de jure state of the law.

Immigration is a place we've done this a lot, but things like the status of marijuana across the country is also predicated on this sort of arbitrary non-enforcement of the law. Obviously the states are not obligated to enforce federal law, but the feds absolutely can. The feds could raid every marijuana dispensary in the country and take them all down with barely a hiccup, at least from a legality standpoint. Yet they don't because we have decided to arbitrarily not enforce the law, even if we haven't changed the law.

I had really hoped after Trump's first term, we would have seen a real awakening to the amount of things that are allowed only because we don't actually enforce the laws that are on the books, and a real push to both fix the laws and roll back the abuses of executive power like this. But we didn't seem to learn that lesson, and sadly it doesn't look like that lesson is going to be learned this time either.

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