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How stealth addresses work in Monero

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Re: How stealth addresses work in Monero

#51

Post by fruitworks »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #2

Alice and Bob may have a surprise in store --- the trust issues, the cost issues and the hoops they'll need to jump through in order to buy Monero, store it in a custodial wallet and then convert it back into fiat if needed.

I didn't find a major trust or cost issue. I just use kraken. Or you can use any other fiat-to-crypto exchange and then take it to a crypto-to-crypto exchange.

I think the bigger obstacle to most people is just the idea that cryptocurrency is difficult, and the idea that buisnesses are trustworthy by default.

Re: How stealth addresses work in Monero

#52

Post by fruitworks »

kragen wrote: post #20

I'm no expert, but this sounds significantly weaker than ZCash at first glance.

The current implementation of monero's tech is less advanced than zcash, but stealth addresses are as secure as ECC gets. The idea comes from ECDH.

The weakness in monero's cryptography is dependence on ring signatures, which will be improved with the FCMP++ upgrade. In other words, it is an issue of sender privacy. Stealth addresses protect recipient privacy.

Re: How stealth addresses work in Monero

#53

Post by RandomBacon »

Anon84 wrote: post #27
RandomBacon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your post seems like F.U.D. #1: "between 2019 and 2023" #2: the author wrote "This attack is not realistic. ... This is why everyone needs to run their own node" #3: "digital forensic approach can still reveal sensitive information by examining off-chain artifacts such as memory and wallet files" So... #1 seems to have been mitigated. #2 seems to not be an issue if you run your own node. #3 seems to not be an issue i…

#1 and #2 are public results by market leading blockchain analytics companies that have an alphabet soup of agencies as their major clients. Do you think they published their current state of the art?

This reply seems like textbook F.U.D.

Re: How stealth addresses work in Monero

#54

Post by walletdrainer »

Anon84 wrote: post #27
RandomBacon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your post seems like F.U.D. #1: "between 2019 and 2023" #2: the author wrote "This attack is not realistic. ... This is why everyone needs to run their own node" #3: "digital forensic approach can still reveal sensitive information by examining off-chain artifacts such as memory and wallet files" So... #1 seems to have been mitigated. #2 seems to not be an issue if you run your own node. #3 seems to not be an issue i…

#1 and #2 are public results by market leading blockchain analytics companies that have an alphabet soup of agencies as their major clients. Do you think they published their current state of the art?

Their current state of art leaks regularly, they inherently have to share it with their customers who are very leaky.

Re: How stealth addresses work in Monero

#55

Post by fluoridation »

kasey_junk wrote: post #32
fluoridation wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Courts, law enforcement and contract law. That's the wrong answer. The existence of tokens predates the existence of government. It's the next step after barter. The correct answer is reputation. A vendor who cheats his customers builds up a bad reputation, and the only way he can keep doing it is by changing customer bases, for example by moving to a different town. Think of the traveling snake oil salesman who mov…

The courts etc are there so we don’t have to create a posse and ride out to find the snake oil salesman. You _can_ have commerce without them but it’s much higher friction. So if a crypto wants me to abandon the existing systems it needs to show it creates less friction.

There's no need for a mob, government-backed or not. A vendor who scams his customer base is harvesting its good will, and eventually it will run out and he'll no longer able to do business.

Re: How stealth addresses work in Monero

#56

Post by otterley »

otterley wrote: post #44
danlugo92 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin's traceability ruins its fungibility.

Fungibility and traceability are orthogonal. Equities markets transactions are highly traceable and also highly fungible. Bitcoin's fungibility is limited by its incredibly slow transaction speed. (This is true of all cryptocurrencies AFAIK -- even the fastest ones that are only capable of 100K TPS at best.)

Correcting myself: I said "fungible" but meant "liquid." Bitcoin is reasonably fungible today, though not as easily as fiat currency. Traceability hasn't done much to reduce Bitcoin's fungibility AFAICT.

Re: How stealth addresses work in Monero

#57

Post by littlecranky67 »

nunobrito wrote: post #31
littlecranky67 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lightning (A layer-2 network based on Bitcoin) is similarly untraceable as Monero, without being an actual cryptocurrency. Yet the fed doesn't seem to concerned, probably also because few people and institutions understand Lightning, and the fed is not one of them or doesn't want to go against Bitcoin.

It is nowhere near the privacy offered by Monero: https://raphtyosaze.medium.com/privacy-in-lightning-network-...

Old paper, old link. Most of it is not relevant anymore today. They also do not compare, as Lightning is NOT a cryptocurrency nor does it try to be. It is still Bitcoin.

Re: How stealth addresses work in Monero

#58

Post by conception »

miki123211 wrote: post #38
vintermann wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where would the trust come from? I mean the trust that people really do what they say they're going to do in the real world - like ship you the goods, do the work you paid for, don't immediately kick you out of the servers you paid to access etc. A shadow economy doesn't run itself, who's going to stick their neck out to even try to make it work?

Crypto lets you decouple trust from ownership, that's one of its main selling points. You can have a Visa-like network that supports chargebacks, but design it in a way that the dispute arbitrators cannot seize your money. If you report a transaction, they can either decide to release the money to the merchant or return it back to you, but the contract logic prevents them from doing anything else with that money. If…

This sounds terrible outside for very rare edge cases. It adds so much friction to disputed transactions. And in the end rather than beholden to the law you’re beholden to a third party arbiter. Sounds terrible in a sector rife with grifters and scams.

Re: How stealth addresses work in Monero

#59

Post by nunobrito »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #57
nunobrito wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is nowhere near the privacy offered by Monero: https://raphtyosaze.medium.com/privacy-in-lightning-network-...

Old paper, old link. Most of it is not relevant anymore today. They also do not compare, as Lightning is NOT a cryptocurrency nor does it try to be. It is still Bitcoin.

Please kindly provide evidence for your claims and please be factual to point the current privacy concerns still open today and what has been addressed (if at all).

Lightning is a token representing bitcoin, same as USDT representing USD.

It is NOT bitcoin, never was.

Re: How stealth addresses work in Monero

#60

Post by littlecranky67 »

nunobrito wrote: post #59
littlecranky67 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old paper, old link. Most of it is not relevant anymore today. They also do not compare, as Lightning is NOT a cryptocurrency nor does it try to be. It is still Bitcoin.

Please kindly provide evidence for your claims and please be factual to point the current privacy concerns still open today and what has been addressed (if at all). Lightning is a token representing bitcoin, same as USDT representing USD. It is NOT bitcoin, never was.

> Lightning is a token representing bitcoin

No, it is NOT. It is not even blockchain based. Not providing anything, as you can easily google all of this yourself.

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