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New magnetic component discovered in the Faraday effect

phys.org

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Re: New magnetic component discovered in the Faraday effect

#51

Post by prmph »

discoutdynamite wrote: post #47

This isnt exactly new. This is a obvious and predicted effect of ECE Theor. I'm surprised that neither the article nor any other commentor mentioned it yet. tl;dr on ECE Theory: Gravity is a curvature of spacetime, electromagnetism is a torsion.

From Wikipedia:

Einstein–Cartan–Evans theory or ECE theory was an attempted unified theory of physics proposed by the Welsh chemist and physicist Myron Wyn Evans ..., which claimed to unify general relativity, quantum mechanics and electromagnetism. The hypothesis was largely published ... between 2003 and 2005. Several of Evans's central claims were later shown to be mathematically incorrect and, in 2008, the new editor of Foundations of Physics, Nobel laureate Gerard't Hooft, published an editorial note effectively retracting the journal's support for the hypothesis.

Re: New magnetic component discovered in the Faraday effect

#52

Post by jacquesm »

piva00 wrote: post #49
isolli wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're built on so many layers of emergence, it's wild! quantum particles => atoms => chemistry => biochemistry => cellular life => multi-cellular life => intelligence

It can keep going! Intelligence -> societies -> technology -> ? One has to wonder how far can emergence stretch given enough time, some kind of entropic limit probably exists but I'm just a layman, hopefully someone more knowledgeable can share if we already know a physical hard limit for emergence.

I like your progression. It makes me wonder if intelligence could lead to technology absent societies.

Re: New magnetic component discovered in the Faraday effect

#54

Post by K0balt »

baq wrote: post #48
namanyayg wrote: post #2

We intuitively think in particles and see a world of billiard balls colliding with one another. But actually everything is merely waves and fields. There's going to be a time where humans finally reconcile the quantum with the newtonian -- and I can't wait for that day

Just listen to Feynmann trying to explain why he can't explain magnetism in macro terms (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO0r930Sn_8 )

So, are you telling me that we actually-don’t- know how magnets work lol?

Re: New magnetic component discovered in the Faraday effect

#55

Post by WJW »

prmph wrote: post #50
gucci-on-fleek wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the other comments have already mentioned, it interferes with itself, so you still observe the same interference patterns [0] [1]. Which admittedly seems impossible at first, but so does the rest of quantum physics. [0]: https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/III_01.html#Ch1-S5 [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave%E2%80%93particle_duality#...

> Which admittedly seems impossible at first, but so does the rest of quantum physics. AKA, miracles can happen, hehe. I'm not trolling, this is a philosophical point I'm making.

Depends on the definition of miracle I guess. There's all sort of unintuitive shit going on in the quantum world, but we can make it happen so reliably that it's hardly a miracle anymore. Wikipedia defines a miracle as "an event that is inexplicable by natural or scientific laws and accordingly gets attributed to some supernatural or praeternatural cause". But we understand "how" quantum mechanics quite well, even if the behavior described by the equations is not very intuitive to humans.

Re: New magnetic component discovered in the Faraday effect

#56

Post by boyanlevchev »

jacquesm wrote: post #52
piva00 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can keep going! Intelligence -> societies -> technology -> ? One has to wonder how far can emergence stretch given enough time, some kind of entropic limit probably exists but I'm just a layman, hopefully someone more knowledgeable can share if we already know a physical hard limit for emergence.

I like your progression. It makes me wonder if intelligence could lead to technology absent societies.

If we take a simple definition of technology - such as “tool” or some external inanimate thing we use as an extension of ourselves - then I think all animals on Earth that we have deemed intelligent to some degree use “technology”. Crows using sticks to pick things out holes, chimps crafting spears for hunting, dolphins wearing “hats”, octopuses building stone fortresses, etc. So I guess it’s important to define the limit of the definition of technology.

Re: New magnetic component discovered in the Faraday effect

#57

Post by layer8 »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #43
gucci-on-fleek wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm? The double slit experiment definitely shows that particles are waves—weird quantum waves, but still waves.

The two-slit experiment shows that photons behave like waves if you aren't looking at them, and that they fail to behave like waves if you are.

Everett reconciled that. They only appear to fail to behave like waves because the observer is waves as well.

Re: New magnetic component discovered in the Faraday effect

#58

Post by baq »

K0balt wrote: post #54
baq wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just listen to Feynmann trying to explain why he can't explain magnetism in macro terms (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO0r930Sn_8 )

So, are you telling me that we actually-don’t- know how magnets work lol?

Not at all - but we don't know how to explain how they work using any analogy from the macro world that we intuitively understand.

Re: New magnetic component discovered in the Faraday effect

#59

Post by naasking »

mock-possum wrote: post #38
farrelle25 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another interpretation of the double-slit posits a guiding 'Pilot Wave' separate from physical particles... aka DeBroglie-Bohm Theory or Bohmian Mechanics. Apparently it's not popular among professional physicsts though John Bell investigated it a bit. Einstein had some unpublished notes in the 1920s about a "Gespensterfeld" (ghost field) that guided particles. Born was influenced by this 'Ghost field' idea when he p…

Pilot wave is still my favorite - I don’t really believe it, but I like the image

It is indeed a great way to translate classical intuitions to the quantum domain.

Re: New magnetic component discovered in the Faraday effect

#60

Post by IAmBroom »

setopt wrote: post #44
hliyan wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think neither analogy is correct. We're using macro metaphors (real world things at human time and spatial scales) to explain microscopic phenomena that may not correspond to anything that we find familiar.

I agree with this. As a physicist, I believe the most accurate resolution is to say that «quantum fields» and «quantum particles» describe neither waves (in the sense of e.g. water or acoustic waves) nor particles (in the sense of marbles and billiard balls), but a third thing that simply has some things in common with both classical waves and classical particles. The analogies are useful for understanding that third…

Thank you! That's a paradigm that I had in the back of my head, but not explicitly phrased.

Photons aren't like particles nor waves. Particles and waves are like photons. And, as with all similes, they fail when you inspect too closely.

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