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Europe's cookie nightmare is crumbling. EC wants preference at browser level

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Re: Europe's cookie nightmare is crumbling. EC wants preference at browser level

#51

Post by flatline »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #33
mkmk3 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False dichotomy, just advertise based on the content of the site without spying on people

Untargeted pay less than 90% of targeted ones generally. And there's not a lot of companies that can handle a 90% drop in revenue. The real solution would be to make users pay for the content, but charging for something that users used to get for "free" is also essentially impossible.

We’ve been talking about federated micropayment technologies for some two decades. I’d happily pay for content but I refuse to sign up for 30+ publisher websites. If I could opt to pay $.25 for some article without giving the site all my personal data or incurring a subscription I’d be all for it. As it is I either “steal” the content through an archiving site or simply leave the site. More and more it’s the latter. I’d also happily pay some monthly fee for unlimited content from a consortium of publishers rather than disable my ad blocker, and let them sort out how much each one gets based on my browsing habits. None of these seem like hard technical problems, it’s certainly not impossible. I think the days of believing content comes without any cost are long behind us.

Re: Europe's cookie nightmare is crumbling. EC wants preference at browser level

#52

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

deafpolygon wrote: post #35
zzzeek wrote: post #12

yes. everyone install Cookie Auto Delete. the problem is a plugin like that would take out entire industries because it would basically end anonymous tracking cookies.

They no longer track you by (only) cookies- the GPDR made sure of that. Fingerprinting is the current standard and there’s no easy way to block that.

> They no longer track you by (only) cookies- the GPDR made sure of that. Fingerprinting is the current standard and there’s no easy way to block that.

Without consent, this is illegal, so if this is happening someone's gonna get sued and fined.

Re: Europe's cookie nightmare is crumbling. EC wants preference at browser level

#53

Post by Projectiboga »

graemep wrote: post #9
pjc50 wrote: post #3

This was the correct decision and could have been made a decade ago. An .. institutional deficiency was trying to make the GDPR as completely general as possible rather than doing a technology mandate. But this had two consequences: bad actors could circumvent it, and good actors just trying to comply ended up horribly confused (e.g. is logging an IP address in an Apache log "personal data"?). DNT header. Legally bin…

I agree cookie banners were the wrong solution, and sometimes made things worse (it make a cookie whitelist extensions I used to use unusable because you have to allow the cookie that stores your cookie preferences). However, this bit concerns me: > This key change is part of a new Digital Package of proposals to simplify the EU’s digital rules, and will initially see cookie prompts change to be a simplified yes or n…

Fine I can vote with my feet and avoid sites that say "no cookies, no lookie" and use archive if I am really eager to read something.

Re: Europe's cookie nightmare is crumbling. EC wants preference at browser level

#54

Post by troupo »

alkonaut wrote: post #44

Users will overwhelmingly use browsers in vanilla config. The question here will be how browser vendors show this option. If - say - a company that gives away a browser for free but makes money from ads designed this, then they'll hide the option deep in some obscure menu, never remind people it exists, and reset it on every update. So the devil is in the details. The best option I think isn't a secret setting in a b…

> The question here will be how browser vendors show this option.

We know exactly how. Here's Google presenting "more private web". If you click "yes, I'm in", all the tracking options will be turned on: https://x.com/dmitriid/status/1664682689591377923

And of course HN (and the industry at large, and journalists) will blame it on "clueless bureaucrats writing regulations"

Re: Europe's cookie nightmare is crumbling. EC wants preference at browser level

#55

Post by layer8 »

alkonaut wrote: post #44

Users will overwhelmingly use browsers in vanilla config. The question here will be how browser vendors show this option. If - say - a company that gives away a browser for free but makes money from ads designed this, then they'll hide the option deep in some obscure menu, never remind people it exists, and reset it on every update. So the devil is in the details. The best option I think isn't a secret setting in a b…

Since tracking is not legal without informed consent, either browsers will be mandated to default to no tracking, or to display a choice on first use. Silently defaulting to tracking certainly won’t be an option, given the whole GDPR and e-Privacy framework.

Re: Europe's cookie nightmare is crumbling. EC wants preference at browser level

#56

Post by dylan604 »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #33
mkmk3 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False dichotomy, just advertise based on the content of the site without spying on people

Untargeted pay less than 90% of targeted ones generally. And there's not a lot of companies that can handle a 90% drop in revenue. The real solution would be to make users pay for the content, but charging for something that users used to get for "free" is also essentially impossible.

It doesn't have to be untargeted. You know the type of content the website hosts, therefore, you know a lot about the type of visitors. You can then charge appropriately for advertising that is targeted at those visitors. Don't show diaper ads on a site called Jalopnik. Instead show ads for Armorall, jack stands, tools, etc. When you visit a media site specializing in content like real houswives or kardashians, don't show the previously suggested ads. Instead, show ads on inane fast fashion, beauty products, luxury items, etc.

Targeted ads are always dumb as they tend to push an item that you've looked into before purchasing, but never realize that item has been purchased and you are no longer interested. They never get that the person researched item but has not looked for some time for item. Let's now advertise accessories for that item. If it was a fridge, show stainless cleaning items, for dishwasher, show ads for different detergents or other kitchen related items. It's not hard. For whatever reasons, they can't do targeted well. Targeted doesn't work as advertised.

Re: Europe's cookie nightmare is crumbling. EC wants preference at browser level

#57

Post by troupo »

deafpolygon wrote: post #35
zzzeek wrote: post #12

yes. everyone install Cookie Auto Delete. the problem is a plugin like that would take out entire industries because it would basically end anonymous tracking cookies.

They no longer track you by (only) cookies- the GPDR made sure of that. Fingerprinting is the current standard and there’s no easy way to block that.

> the GPDR made sure of that

wat.

fingerprinting and cookiless tracking was a thing before GDPR. And GDPR literally talks about all forms of tracking, not just cookies. One would think you'd read at least something before having an opinion.

Re: Europe's cookie nightmare is crumbling. EC wants preference at browser level

#58

Post by dylan604 »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #40
Klaster_1 wrote: post #2

Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45667866 Personally, I find this a move in the wrong direction where hostile behavior by websites is normalized and hidden. Cookie banners show web site true colors. When someone asks me to share data with a thousand of "partners", I leave.

I agree. I think it's one of those things that people complain about because other people complain about. You have to click a button. Wow. What an ordeal. The title of this thread used the term "nightmare". I would be thankful that my life is so wonderful that clicking a button is considered a "nightmare". It's transparent and if you don't like it, don't go to that site.

It's a nightmare because it is everywhere you turn, not because of the difficulty in dismissing the banner (although not all banners are made equally). But I'm pretty sure you're smart enough to realize you're intentionally making a strawman argument. It's the purpose of the argument I'm not sure.

Re: Europe's cookie nightmare is crumbling. EC wants preference at browser level

#59

Post by troupo »

sunshine-o wrote: post #17

> says the EU. “This will drastically simplify users’ online experience.” They are proudly removing the annoyance they mandated 7 tears ago. Do we have to congratulate them?

None of that annoyance was mandated by the EU.

Curious how no one blames the industry which just needs to store your precise geolocation data for 12 years: https://x.com/dmitriid/status/1817122117093056541

Re: Europe's cookie nightmare is crumbling. EC wants preference at browser level

#60

Post by damnitbuilds »

We need clear, direct punishments based on %revenue for websites not taking "NO!" for an answer.

Don't fucking rush, you useless bureaucrats.

"A mix of European legislation has resulted in cookie notices that use dark patterns to nudge people into accepting online tracking. And regulators aren’t taking strong action"

Wired, 20/5/2020:

https://www.wired.com/story/gdpr-cookie-consent-eprivacy/

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