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The government has no plan for America’s 300 billion pennies

theatlantic.com

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Re: The government has no plan for America’s 300 billion pennies

#51

Post by zdragnar »

pengaru wrote: post #49
jldugger wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Folks can take them to a bank FWIW my bank refuses to accept unrolled coins, long before this month's retirement of the penny.

It's odd how banks have largely stopped operating change counting machines. In my childhood we'd hoard loose change then make a trip to the local po-dunk bank serving my neighborhood surrounded by corn fields, and even there they'd take our bucket of loose change and dump it into a counting machine for free. It was a game to try guess the amount we'd get in paper cash... Now you have to pay for this service at a groc…

COVID happened. However, all three of the banks I visit regularly (over branch of a national bank, two branches of a local credit union) all have coin counting machines in the lobby, though it took awhile for them to be added back to the branches that took theirs out.

Re: The government has no plan for America’s 300 billion pennies

#52

Post by Laremere »

puppycodes wrote: post #22
dehrmann wrote: post #19

Do you not just shred them and send them to a scrap metal processor?

Only pennies before 1982 are worth scrapping as they are made of copper. The newer pennies are not really worth the effort as they are mostly zinc. Ironically if they are no longer illegal to melt down (IANAL but I would think this is true?) they actually would be more worth it to scrap because of the negated risk.

No law in relation to pennies has changed. The executive branch has simply took the law stating the mint should create as many pennies as necessary, and decided that the necessary amount is 0.

The practicalities of their illegality then comes down to enforcement. Given the current executive branch's behavior related to enforcement of laws, that can mean anything from "melt them all down", to "don't do it", to "if our friends start doing it, it'll be legal, if our enemies start doing it, we'll enforce".

Re: The government has no plan for America’s 300 billion pennies

#53

Post by zdragnar »

sdenton4 wrote: post #29
dehrmann wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been listening to Marketplace less because of stories like this. The half cent went away, the penny went away, other countries have discontinued currencies. You keep accepting pennies and you round when people pay in cash. At some point, your register will do the rounding for you. There isn't really a story here.

The register might already do the rounding if it was designed to work in Canada, which got rid of the penny over a decade ago.

There's a bunch of regulations that need tweaking. AIUI, it's illegal to charge SNAP more than other customers. someone who paid cash and gets rounded down technically pays less than what the government got charged. It's only on the order of pennies, I don't think the law cares about that at all.

Re: The government has no plan for America’s 300 billion pennies

#54

Post by toast0 »

summa_tech wrote: post #32
toast0 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many issues probably don't need the lengthy deliberative processes that stall or delay change. But the problems with the penny have been apparent for years, maybe even decades. There was plenty of time to study the issue, observe how other economies have made similar transitions and figure out how to make it work in an orderly fashion. Instead, we have a change by executive decree, with no apparent planning. Will the…

The issue with the lengthy deliberative process is that it provides multiple opportunities for motivated, but ultimately damaging to the public, operators to intervene. In this case, I present to you the Americans for Common Cents: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_for_Common_Cents They care more to keep the cent than normal Americans, who ultimately pay for its cost of manufacturing, care to get rid of it. So…

You just need a clever advocacy group name. Something like Making Cents of our Currency or No Noncents. Or, something along the lines of If the Mint is losing money, it doesn't make cents.

But yes, our system is biased towards those with sustained focus. That does lead to some wrong decisions, but it's probably better than a system biased to action, or biased towards chaos.

Re: The government has no plan for America’s 300 billion pennies

#55

Post by mmooss »

This rounds physical currency to the nearest $0.05, effectively. Why not round everything to the nearest $0.1? The math and adjustments (changes to every printed price, etc.) would be simpler. How much for the wine? "$19.9". It seems much simpler to me, though I'm sure it's been discussed ...

Is there some item that would be problematic to round to $0.1? I suppose anything that is fractionally priced at ≤$0.05 is now would have a minimum purchase of 2. Items bought in bulk could be priced fractionally.

We already round off fractional pennies all the time, e.g. in securities market prices, tax calculations, gasoline prices, etc. That's not a problem. And any electronic purchase could be for fractional amounts - but why?

(Once upon a time, you probably could sell the idea to IT people by pointing out how much memory and bandwidth it would save.)

Re: The government has no plan for America’s 300 billion pennies

#56

Post by dehrmann »

zdragnar wrote: post #53
sdenton4 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The register might already do the rounding if it was designed to work in Canada, which got rid of the penny over a decade ago.

There's a bunch of regulations that need tweaking. AIUI, it's illegal to charge SNAP more than other customers. someone who paid cash and gets rounded down technically pays less than what the government got charged. It's only on the order of pennies, I don't think the law cares about that at all.

I don't buy the SNAP argument because there's already rounding when taxes are applied, and half cents are still legal tender, so you could go into a store, tell them they should have charged half a cent less, and then they'd be in a similar trivial violation of SNAP.

Re: The government has no plan for America’s 300 billion pennies

#57

Post by evanelias »

At minimum they're useful as makeshift pie weights when blind-baking a pie crust. After shaping the dough in the baking dish, cover it in aluminum foil and then fill it with pennies. They conduct heat well, and prevent the dough from bubbling or shrinking.

Re: The government has no plan for America’s 300 billion pennies

#59

Post by ghssds »

analog31 wrote: post #43
jldugger wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Folks can take them to a bank FWIW my bank refuses to accept unrolled coins, long before this month's retirement of the penny.

One of the reasons why I changed banks. My new bank has a coin counting machine in the lobby, you throw your coins in, it consumes them, and gives you a slip that you take to the teller. As I understand it, coins are considered a government service. Banks and retailers pay to deal with them. Buying them from the public for face value actually saves them money.

It's so easy to use coins, pennies included, in day-to-day transactions I never accumulate any. Accumulating pennies or other coins is a concept I don't understand. You can spend up to 4 pennies in any purchase you do, and if you don't can't never receive more than 4. For nickels, dimes, and quarters, the maximum is smaller.

Re: The government has no plan for America’s 300 billion pennies

#60

Post by ssl-3 »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #36
rayiner wrote: post #7

[flagged]

For anyone who might point out that this lack of planning may lead to incredibly minor price rises for everyone, i'll add that this can be balanced by the very minor inconvenience that will no longer exist. This is inherently unquantifiable, but as people here love pointing out that doesn't mean it's not worth something.

Without planning and the resultant guidance, we stand to be inconvenienced every time one of the customers in front of us and the cashier have differences in their ideas for how rounding works.

(But that's OK, I guess: After all, that's just an aggregate of many millions of little inconveniences, instead of some somewhat larger inconveniences for a few people in advance. Their time is clearly more important than yours is, or mine is. All hail the chief.)

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