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Are We Doomed?

lrb.co.uk

51–60 of 73 posts

Re: Are We Doomed?

#51
There's an awful lot of us. The population is about 4x what it was a century ago so we can decline in numbers a while before getting there.

Re: Are We Doomed?

#53
post #29

My feeling is that birth rate could be solved in properly authoritarian country. With policies that won't fit to most "western" schemes. Ban birth control pill Ban Abortion Largely limit social media Subsidize recreational activities like bars and other such drugs After people have accidental kids, they will figure out the food, housing and so on.

China is now encouraging higher birth rates after many years of the one-child policy. But the general consensus is that it hasn’t been very successful, even with the CCP’s authoritarian power. The causes are multi-dimensional and difficult to solve: high living costs, changing social values, and younger generations who no longer want to marry young—or marry at all. Even North Korea has to encourage women to give birt…

Russia too. Without much success.

Re: Are We Doomed?

#54
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are "plummeting around the world at the same time," they just didn't start plummeting everywhere at the same time. This is pedantic. Do you understand what "at the same time" means? By the time birth rates plummet below replacement rate in Africa, they would have risen well above replacement again in Europe and North America. > Except Africa can't fill the gap for everywhere else, and if immigration is the "so…

> By the time birth rates plummet below replacement rate in Africa, they would have risen well above replacement again in Europe and North America. What makes you think they will rise again in a timely manner? Demographers naively predicted the rates would stop decreasing and magicaly stabilize close to replacement levels, and failed miserably. To my best knowledge there is no indication the current trends will rever…

Demographers were kinda right, it's just that we've had new socioeconomic problems [0][1] post-pill, and we're really starting to feel the effects since around 2008. Post-pill fertility rates in Europe and NA had been slowly rising before that. I think we're likely to fix at least one of these problems in the coming decades. Or rather, we have to because we'd be royally screwed otherwise. And in the event we fail, most democratic societies would turn authoritarian, in which case they'd be able to implement population engineering measures like banning birth control.

[0] https://wtfhappenedin1971.com

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45725009

Due note, I'm citing these sources because they show the problem, not because their conclusions are sound.

Re: Are We Doomed?

#55
A good and thought provoking read. This is obviously navel-gazing, but looking at this from an individual or family perspective, I'm wondering about how you could prosper in a depopulating, aging, and warming world.

Traditional investments like real estate and property may not be solid bets if there are suddenly a lot of it to go around due to there being less of us around. Then again, city growth seems stable.

Another point is what happens to stock markets when there are less consumers and producers. Stagnating GDP and indices do not make attractive investments. Where do I invest my hard earned cash then? Private elderly care, drug companies, robotics companies?

We should probably look to the countries mentioned in the article, like South Korea or Japan for answers. But I'm not sure I'm able to pick out winning strategies looking at those, or even be sure they would work where I'm based.

I'm curious what your thoughts are - how do you invest and prepare for the next fifty years?

I realize this is a selfish comment to make, but shoring up oneself is at least actionable for us as individuals, in addition to trying to make the world a better place for everyone else.

Re: Are We Doomed?

#56
post #29

My feeling is that birth rate could be solved in properly authoritarian country. With policies that won't fit to most "western" schemes. Ban birth control pill Ban Abortion Largely limit social media Subsidize recreational activities like bars and other such drugs After people have accidental kids, they will figure out the food, housing and so on.

This is just not interesting. A dictator can force people to do things.

Re: Are We Doomed?

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But ramping up the birth rate? Only three ways to pull that off: straight-up tank women's rights across the board, socialize childcare big-time, or just smash the current political system to bits and build something better. Actually it's probably more about smashing the cultural and economic system. IMHO the problem with fertility isn't so much with "women's rights" or the "political system" per se, but capitalism…

Beware of explaining everything with one reason, and I certainly noticed the tendency of contemporary Americans to explain everything with "capitalism". It doesn't really fit the picture. Capitalism is about 250 years old and most of that time it correlated with a massive population explosion , not a collapse . The current world also isn't uniformly capitalist. Socioeconomic conditions and systems differ across the g…

> Beware of explaining everything with one reason, and I certainly noticed the tendency of contemporary Americans to explain everything with "capitalism".

Capitalism probably not the only cause, but I think it's a pretty central cause, and may be driving some of the other causes. I also think its worth pointing out because it can be one of those things that's so familiar that it can become invisible.

Birth control technology is probably the other big cause, because it would have the effect of "unblocking" the effect of other cultural trends on birthrate.

> There are more things at play. For example, we spend our most fertile years in school...

I assume you're talking about 18-22, but my impression is that historically, most women had their first children after that age, even before widespread college education.

I think a bigger factor is probably early focus on career pushing many women to try to start having children even later in their late 20s/early 30s. And that goes back to capitalist workplaces being pretty unaccommodating to parents (it's a bit better now, but work still demands your first priority to be your work).

> What is entirely new is the loneliness epidemic, though. I would blame that on the specific combination of Covid lockdowns (which killed off a lot of real-world institutions where people met in person) and the smartphone attention economy.

That's not that new though: the book Bowling Alone was published in 2000 and is apparently based off a 1995 essay. COVID and smartphones just accelerated existing trends.

Re: Are We Doomed?

#58
post #29

My feeling is that birth rate could be solved in properly authoritarian country. With policies that won't fit to most "western" schemes. Ban birth control pill Ban Abortion Largely limit social media Subsidize recreational activities like bars and other such drugs After people have accidental kids, they will figure out the food, housing and so on.

>Ban birth control pill

>Ban Abortion

Addressed in the article, but I'll reiterate here: Ceausescu's tried and failed.

Also, during Ceausescu reign, there was no social media, there was no TV, and housing was literally handed out by the regime for almost nothing.

It didn't matter. Fertility rate still went down. And the unwanted kids ended up in large numbers in the grim orphanages.

Re: Are We Doomed?

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beware of explaining everything with one reason, and I certainly noticed the tendency of contemporary Americans to explain everything with "capitalism". It doesn't really fit the picture. Capitalism is about 250 years old and most of that time it correlated with a massive population explosion , not a collapse . The current world also isn't uniformly capitalist. Socioeconomic conditions and systems differ across the g…

> Beware of explaining everything with one reason, and I certainly noticed the tendency of contemporary Americans to explain everything with "capitalism". Capitalism probably not the only cause, but I think it's a pretty central cause, and may be driving some of the other causes. I also think its worth pointing out because it can be one of those things that's so familiar that it can become invisible. Birth control te…

"I assume you're talking about 18-22, but my impression is that historically, most women had their first children after that age, even before widespread college education."

In cities and in richer families, yes. In rural settings, everything was sped up a bit, and, until very recently, most population worldwide was rural. Even if we look at highly fertile regions today (Afghanistan, Niger, Chad...), the first-time mothers tend to be between 16 and 18 and live outside the few cities that are there.

My own grandmother grew up in a rather underdeveloped corner of Slovakia in the 1930s (no electricity, wooden huts etc.), and a peasant girl who wouldn't be at least betrothed by 20 was seen as a bit weird.

Quite a lot of our previous fecundity was driven by rural mothers having six or seven children. This was a major source of "kid surplus". The urban population was never as fertile, plus there was some extra mortality from diseases and higher cost of food.

Re: Are We Doomed?

#60
post #55

A good and thought provoking read. This is obviously navel-gazing, but looking at this from an individual or family perspective, I'm wondering about how you could prosper in a depopulating, aging, and warming world. Traditional investments like real estate and property may not be solid bets if there are suddenly a lot of it to go around due to there being less of us around. Then again, city growth seems stable. Anoth…

I just fundamentally do not understand the economics of why everybody is so worried about aging and depopulation. TECHNOLOGY. ROBOTS. We us technology to increase production. We create more with less. Automation and technology should create an environment where less people can care for more more efficiently than ever before. Food production should require less people than ever before. Shipping. And not even just mechanical robots. Sunlight and yeast -> food.

The problem becomes the banks financing private ownership of the robots. Maybe the populations livelihood shouldn't be a profit center. Or in the case of the modern economy, where consistent profit is failure, an wealth extraction growth center.

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