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As 'Dorian Gray' ages, its relevance only grows

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Re: As 'Dorian Gray' ages, its relevance only grows

#51
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sam is loyal and devoted to Frodo, but there is zero romance between them. I don’t see how one could read that in the book. Sam even marries Rosy and has umpteen children. Is Gollum gay for Frodo because he caressed his knees while on the path of Cirith Ungol?

I can't help but agree having read the books umpteenth times... even in retrospect I find it more likely that Tolkien added Rosy into the narrative simply to make it clear that Sam was a heterosexual and that Frodo was merely an asexual eccentric like Bilbo. I don't think there is any problem or harm in reading them as bi or gay, but I'd love to read a better case for Tolkien having written them with that intention.…

I suspect Tolkien’s primary motivation in Sam marrying Rosie was a literary device to evoke a return to normality and the settled constancy of the shire, rather than explicit signalling that Sam was heterosexual. I can see what you mean though, and actually your point about Bilbo and Frodo sort of gets to the same place (their disordered lives vs the order of marriage) but I think it’s maybe a case of applying a modern interpretation to something that doesn’t need it.

Heterosexual succession (or, rather, the succession driven by the family unit) was (and still is!) a driver of “ordered society” and given both Bilbo and Frodo subverted this because of Tookish events (Bilbo driven by, and Frodo basically suffering the fall out from) Sam marrying Rosie is effectively the natural end point of things. He is able to marry her because of what came before, and their marrying is a signal that those times are over.

I’m going to have to re-read Tolkien now. I haven’t since I was 15, and this thread made me realise I ought to pay it another visit!

Re: As 'Dorian Gray' ages, its relevance only grows

#52
post #12
post #10

I'd place it 5th in my overall favorite books list. It is certainly one which has influenced me deeply and continues to do so, ever since I first read it 13 years ago.

Now everyone including me wants to know your top 4!

Oh, sure!

1. The Book of Disquiet by Bernardo Soares/Fernando Pessoa ("Livro do Desassossego" in the original Portuguese)

2. 1984 by George Orwell

3. The Unbearable Lightness of Being by Milan Kundera

4. The Design of Everyday Things by Don Norman

5. (As mentioned) The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde

It doesn't make much sense, but between 1. and 2. I'd put all of the currently known poetry and prose by Álvaro de Campos, Alberto Caeiro, and Ricardo Reis (in that order). I have a 3-book collection with this.

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