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Unexpected things that are people

bengoldhaber.substack.com

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Re: Unexpected things that are people

#51

Post by kerkeslager »

NoboruWataya wrote: post #45
joeypickles wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems appropriate here: https://genius.com/Moondog-enough-about-human-rights-lyrics In other words, why do we have to make something a person in order to give it rights?

We don't have to, that's just the way we chose to do it (specifically for groups of humans acting in a commercial context).

To be clear, it's not the way WE chose to do it, it's how CORPORATIONS chose to do it, because it benefits them greatly: corporations can get all the rights that a human can get while being immune to most consequences such as imprisonment and the death penalty.

Corporations benefit from this, we humans don't.

Re: Unexpected things that are people

#52

Post by IncreasePosts »

bitwize wrote: post #43
robot-wrangler wrote: post #7

Thought provoking. Most people who (quite reasonably) hate corporate personhood would probably have a knee-jerk reaction that personhood for a river can/should be normalized. The thing with temples stems ultimately from fairly practical matters if they hold such treasure, but it's a magnet for strife, and actually kind of surprising that in the case-study mentioned they resisted the opportunity to justify abuse of po…

> Most people who (quite reasonably) hate corporate personhood would probably have a knee-jerk reaction that personhood for a river can/should be normalized. Well, one protects nature, the other protects profits. They are not the same thing.

A river is nature (maybe), it doesn't protect nature. If a river is a person, and a river floods and destroys my home, can I sue the river?

Re: Unexpected things that are people

#53

Post by mrtesthah »

ACCount37 wrote: post #28
metada5e wrote: post #4

I recommend reading the book 'For Profit' for deeper knowledge on this topic - the book covers the origin of corporations and the ideas lying behind legal personhood. It sounds like a dry read but it is surprisingly well written and as much about history as about law. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/60568507-for-profit Criminal and Civil liability are the two topics to focus on - you will find that non-human enti…

Amusingly enough, corporate personhood is one relatively straightforward pathway for a capable AGI to attain legal personhood. No novel legislation required. Just some legal grey areas and a whole lot of scheming.

In the US, a corporation needs a business bank account, and that account must be registered to one or more corporate officers with legal identification.

Re: Unexpected things that are people

#54

Post by hn_acc1 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #46
robot-wrangler wrote: post #7

Thought provoking. Most people who (quite reasonably) hate corporate personhood would probably have a knee-jerk reaction that personhood for a river can/should be normalized. The thing with temples stems ultimately from fairly practical matters if they hold such treasure, but it's a magnet for strife, and actually kind of surprising that in the case-study mentioned they resisted the opportunity to justify abuse of po…

I wouldn’t have so much problem with corporate personhood if we hadn’t decided money was speech. Plus, if corporations get to be people for all the good stuff, it should require taking the bad bits too. E.g. capital punishment should be on the table.

This 1000x

Re: Unexpected things that are people

#55

Post by glitchc »

joeypickles wrote: post #41
robot-wrangler wrote: post #7

Thought provoking. Most people who (quite reasonably) hate corporate personhood would probably have a knee-jerk reaction that personhood for a river can/should be normalized. The thing with temples stems ultimately from fairly practical matters if they hold such treasure, but it's a magnet for strife, and actually kind of surprising that in the case-study mentioned they resisted the opportunity to justify abuse of po…

Seems appropriate here: https://genius.com/Moondog-enough-about-human-rights-lyrics In other words, why do we have to make something a person in order to give it rights?

Because it's much simpler to inherit laws than to craft a whole new set. Once an entity is declared a person, the rather complex web of existing legislation that applies to personhood automatically takes effect.

Re: Unexpected things that are people

#56

Post by nocoiner »

ACCount37 wrote: post #28
metada5e wrote: post #4

I recommend reading the book 'For Profit' for deeper knowledge on this topic - the book covers the origin of corporations and the ideas lying behind legal personhood. It sounds like a dry read but it is surprisingly well written and as much about history as about law. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/60568507-for-profit Criminal and Civil liability are the two topics to focus on - you will find that non-human enti…

Amusingly enough, corporate personhood is one relatively straightforward pathway for a capable AGI to attain legal personhood. No novel legislation required. Just some legal grey areas and a whole lot of scheming.

Good for the AI (though who are its stockholders or the members of its board of directors?), but not so great, perhaps, for all the individuals who enabled it, who might now all be deemed to be partners in a general partnership with the AI and therefore jointly liable for the acts and liabilities of all the other partners.

Re: Unexpected things that are people

#57

Post by actionfromafar »

ACCount37 wrote: post #28
metada5e wrote: post #4

I recommend reading the book 'For Profit' for deeper knowledge on this topic - the book covers the origin of corporations and the ideas lying behind legal personhood. It sounds like a dry read but it is surprisingly well written and as much about history as about law. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/60568507-for-profit Criminal and Civil liability are the two topics to focus on - you will find that non-human enti…

Amusingly enough, corporate personhood is one relatively straightforward pathway for a capable AGI to attain legal personhood. No novel legislation required. Just some legal grey areas and a whole lot of scheming.

Not even a gray area if the AGI settles for controlling the board of directors. With the right incentives, anything is possible. Just look at Musk! And he's even got a built in expiry date.

Re: Unexpected things that are people

#59

Post by actionfromafar »

mrtesthah wrote: post #53
ACCount37 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amusingly enough, corporate personhood is one relatively straightforward pathway for a capable AGI to attain legal personhood. No novel legislation required. Just some legal grey areas and a whole lot of scheming.

In the US, a corporation needs a business bank account, and that account must be registered to one or more corporate officers with legal identification.

Does it count if the officer is in cryosleep?

Re: Unexpected things that are people

#60

Post by joeypickles »

glitchc wrote: post #55
joeypickles wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems appropriate here: https://genius.com/Moondog-enough-about-human-rights-lyrics In other words, why do we have to make something a person in order to give it rights?

Because it's much simpler to inherit laws than to craft a whole new set. Once an entity is declared a person, the rather complex web of existing legislation that applies to personhood automatically takes effect.

Simpler in the short run, but creates tech debt I think.
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