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US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

thedailybeast.com

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Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#51

Post by dessimus »

mothballed wrote: post #4

It's wild ATC isn't funded by use fees instead of being appropriated by congress. Seems like a good opportunity to provide some mechanism so the government has to shit or get off the pot, because if the government won't do the job the airlines would surely be glad to pay for the service themselves.

Commercial airline passengers are not the only users of ATC. If you include mail and parcel carriers and other use cases like med-evac, tourist, and other private flights, you are probably close to 100% coverage of US taxpayers in the country.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#52

Post by inglor_cz »

throwaway173738 wrote: post #41
inglor_cz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be a somewhat inefficient system. There is no absolute need to consider aviation fees to be taxes and collect them through a federal agency. Individual airports should be capable of financing their local ATC as they see fit, be it their own airport fees or, IDK, a surcharge on hamburgers sold in the local McD or a gift from a wealthy sponsor; and they should only have a duty to maintain certain technica…

There’s a whole network of radars and communication centers that are not part of any specific airport. How would you fund that through use fees at an airport?

A common fund?

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#53

Post by dangus »

jeffbee wrote: post #9
montroser wrote: post #2

What is Trump's endgame here? Everyone stranded for Thanksgiving, poor kids going hungry, all for...what, exactly?

Trump has no remaining mental powers and is not orchestrating this shutdown.

Mike Johnson has been speaker for long enough so that the average follower of politics probably forgets the fiasco behind his selection.

He’s really not a very skilled politician at all.

And of course, Trump is beyond deep fried, he’s a full blown dementia patient. He has no ability to navigate Congress. He even gave away his party’s leverage by fighting against SNAP payments, giving Democrats no reason to back down.

Fun fact, the only two presidents without government shutdowns since the modern budget process began have been Joe Biden and George W. Bush.

Joe Biden in particular was a master at navigating Congress and has relationships all over the place across the aisle. The bipartisan infrastructure bill is a really legitimate accomplishment in that sense.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#54

Post by koolba »

actionfromafar wrote: post #26
slg wrote: post #16

I know many of the people reading this will think I'm being hysterical. But there was a small voice in the back of my mind when the shutdown started wondering whether that version of the American government would ever reopen and that voice has started to become much louder in recent days. Specifically the combination of this, the handling of SNAP benefits, and this all happening in November just seems intentionally d…

That’s MAGA for you.

[flagged]

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#55

Post by philipwhiuk »

throwaway173738 wrote: post #41
inglor_cz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be a somewhat inefficient system. There is no absolute need to consider aviation fees to be taxes and collect them through a federal agency. Individual airports should be capable of financing their local ATC as they see fit, be it their own airport fees or, IDK, a surcharge on hamburgers sold in the local McD or a gift from a wealthy sponsor; and they should only have a duty to maintain certain technica…

There’s a whole network of radars and communication centers that are not part of any specific airport. How would you fund that through use fees at an airport?

You could do airspace overflight fees similar to how it works when you overfly other countries.

It would make routing a tonne more complex tho

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#56

Post by tdb7893 »

jacquesm wrote: post #32
ecshafer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You have your parties muddled up. The democrats are not in power.

I'm a Democrat (well, nominally at least) but they clearly need some people from both parties to fund the government. Democrats won't vote for a "clean" bill and Republicans won't negotiate. The crazy thing is people predicted the shutdown in the spring and the government still drove the boat straight into this iceberg.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#57

Post by estearum »

docdeek wrote: post #37
lesuorac wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Polling suggests that independents don’t “overwhelmingly" blame the GOP. It’s split 48/32/14 GOP/Dem/Equal "Democrats and Republicans hold each other's party more responsible for the government shutdown. Among independents, 48 percent think Republicans in Congress are more responsible, while 32 percent think Democrats in Congress are more responsible and 14 percent volunteered that they think both parties are equally…

A 16 point difference is quite substantial in American politics. It's a matter of taste whether you consider it "overwhelming," but it's objectively not split down the middle.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#58

Post by legitster »

slg wrote: post #16

I know many of the people reading this will think I'm being hysterical. But there was a small voice in the back of my mind when the shutdown started wondering whether that version of the American government would ever reopen and that voice has started to become much louder in recent days. Specifically the combination of this, the handling of SNAP benefits, and this all happening in November just seems intentionally d…

One side abhors "the government" and actively took an axe to the agencies and programs that the other side cared about. The result is that neither party have any sort of active investment in the current status quo.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#59

Post by philipwhiuk »

pwthornton wrote: post #25
8note wrote: post #8

why are traffic controllers government employees at all? wouldn't it be better for the government to maintain a standards/licensing body and only have a couple on staff as a "traffic controllers of last resort" during emergencies? when an traffic controller quits, what job can they go to? clearly not another airport

It's probably because a lot of smaller airports in the middle of nowhere would be hard to get coverage for. The current system sends controllers to where they are needed, not to where people want to work. Now, should more productive parts of the country be subsidizing air travel in less productive parts of the country? That's for you to decide.

Bear in mind you need radar coverage for overflight even if you don't land.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#60

Post by actionfromafar »

summa_tech wrote: post #30
lesuorac wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What does the Supreme Court or White House have to do with the bipartisan agreement between Senate garbagepersons to retain the insane filibuster policy that guarantees non-resolution of simple deadlocks?

[flagged]
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