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How AGI became the most consequential conspiracy theory of our time

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Re: How AGI became the most consequential conspiracy theory of our time

#51

I remember when ChatGPT 3.5 was going to be AGI, then 4, then 4o, etc. It's kinda like the dooms day predictions, even if they fail it's ok. Because the next one though, oh that's the real doomsday. I, for one, am waiting for a true AI Scotsman [0]. [0]: https://idiallo.com/byte-size/ai-scotsman

I honestly don’t remember many if any people saying that at all, those would have been extremely fringe positions.

From Sam's own blog: "We are now confident we know how to build AGI as we have traditionally understood it."

Another quote: "Trying GPT-4.5 has been much more of a 'feel the AGI' moment among high-taste testers than I expected!"

Re: How AGI became the most consequential conspiracy theory of our time

#52

I remember when ChatGPT 3.5 was going to be AGI, then 4, then 4o, etc. It's kinda like the dooms day predictions, even if they fail it's ok. Because the next one though, oh that's the real doomsday. I, for one, am waiting for a true AI Scotsman [0]. [0]: https://idiallo.com/byte-size/ai-scotsman

I honestly don’t remember many if any people saying that at all, those would have been extremely fringe positions.

Robert Scoble was saying something of that effect about the upcoming ChatGPT 4 if I remember correctly

Re: How AGI became the most consequential conspiracy theory of our time

#53
post #40
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you assume that AGI is fake and impossible That seems like a bad straw-man for "AI boosterism has the following hallmarks of conspiratorial thinking". > offer some reasoning that it's impossible Further on, the author has anticipated your objection: > And there it is: You can’t prove it’s not true. [...] Conspiracy thinking looms again. Predictions about when AGI will arrive are made with the precision of numero…

If it makes you angry that people want to work to build AGI--people who have thought about it a lot more than you--you can't convince them to stop by repeatedly yelling "I don't think it's possible, you're a fool!" No more than yelling "electricity is conspiracy thinking/Satan's plaything!" repeatedly would have stopped engineers in the 19th century from studying and building with it.

Yet yelling: "why would have to die from blood loss, we can transfuse some right here" At Jehova's witnesses actually does help some.

We don't have to save everybody, but only by trying to we save some.

Re: How AGI became the most consequential conspiracy theory of our time

#54

> At the core of most definitions you’ll find the idea of a machine that can match humans on a wide range of cognitive tasks. I expect this definition will be proven incorrect eventually. This definition would best be described as a "human level AGI", rather than AGI. AGI is a system that matches a core set of properties, but it's not necessarily tied to capabilities. Theoretically one could create a very small resou…

That’s like Peter Norvig’s definition of AGI [1] which is defined with respect to general purpose digital computers. The general intelligence refers to the foundation model that can be repurposed to many different contexts. I like that definition because it is clear.

Currently, AGI is defined in a way where it is truly indistinguishable from superintelligence. I don’t find that helpful.

[1] https://www.noemamag.com/artificial-general-intelligence-is-...

Re: How AGI became the most consequential conspiracy theory of our time

#55
Based on my personal experience, I feel like we've already had AGI for some time. Just based on how centralized society has become. It feels like the system is not working for the vast majority of people, yet somehow it's still holding together in spite of enormous complexity... It FEELS like there is some advanced intelligence holding things together. Some aspects of the system's functioning seems too clever to be the result of human intelligence.

Also, in retrospect, something doesn't quite add up about the 'AI winter' narrative. It's hard to believe that so many people were studying and working on AI and it took so long given that ultimately, attention is all you need(ed).

I studied AI at university in Australia over a decade ago, did the introductory course which was great; we learned about decision trees, Bayesian probability and machine learning; we wrote our own ANNs from scratch. then I took on the advanced course, expecting to be blown away by the material, but the whole course was about mathematics, no AI theory; even back then there was a lot of advanced material which they could have covered (e.g. evolutionary computation) but didn't... I dropped out after a week or two because of how boring it was.

In retrospect, I feel like the course was made boring and irrelevant on purpose. I remember I even heard someone in my entourage mention that AI winter is not real... While we were supposedly in the middle of it.

Also, I remember thinking at the time that evolutionary computation combined with ANNs was going to be the future... So I was kind of surprised how evolutionary computation seemingly disappeared out of view... In retrospect though, I think to myself; progress in that area could potentially lead to unpredictable and dangerous outcomes so it may not be discussed openly.

Now I think; take an evolutionary algorithm and combine it with modern neural nets with attention mechanisms and you'd surely get some impressive results.

Re: How AGI became the most consequential conspiracy theory of our time

#56

> At the core of most definitions you’ll find the idea of a machine that can match humans on a wide range of cognitive tasks. I expect this definition will be proven incorrect eventually. This definition would best be described as a "human level AGI", rather than AGI. AGI is a system that matches a core set of properties, but it's not necessarily tied to capabilities. Theoretically one could create a very small resou…

What does this even mean? How can we say a definition of “AGI” is “correct” or “incorrect” when the only thing people can agree on, is we don’t have AGI yet?

Re: How AGI became the most consequential conspiracy theory of our time

#57

Ray Kurzweil and his "Age of Spiritual Machines", which I read in 1999, is much more to blame than the others like Goertzel that came after him but Kurzweil doesn't get a mention. Kurzweil is also a MIT grad closely associated with MIT and possibly the MIT Technology Review.

Yes, the Singularity came from Kurzweil.

Re: How AGI became the most consequential conspiracy theory of our time

#58

Imagine someone in the year 1900 started talking about moon landings, and risk of extinction from atomic weapons. A clearly unhinged individual. That the claims appear extreme and apocalyptic doesn't tell us anything about correctness. Yes, there are tons of people saying nonsense, but look back at events. For a while it seemed as though AI was improving extremely quickly. People extrapolated from that. I wouldn't ca…

If a person in 1900 wrote a novel about landing on the moon, they would be a sci-fi author.

If they discussed what a future moon landing might be like or how it could work, they would be a futurist.

If they were raising funds for a moon landing that they are currently working on, and success is surely imminent, despite not having any evidence that they can achieve it, or that they have beaten the technical hurdles necessary to do so, then they would be seen as a fraud.

It doesn’t really matter that at some point in the future the moon landings happened.

Re: How AGI became the most consequential conspiracy theory of our time

#59

Based on my personal experience, I feel like we've already had AGI for some time. Just based on how centralized society has become. It feels like the system is not working for the vast majority of people, yet somehow it's still holding together in spite of enormous complexity... It FEELS like there is some advanced intelligence holding things together. Some aspects of the system's functioning seems too clever to be t…

I think the AI winter was over by 2007. There was a lot of hype about machine learning and big data. The Netflix Prize for building a Recommender model launched in 2006. There was research on neural networks and deep belief networks, but they weren't as popular as they are today.

Re: How AGI became the most consequential conspiracy theory of our time

#60

Imagine someone in the year 1900 started talking about moon landings, and risk of extinction from atomic weapons. A clearly unhinged individual. That the claims appear extreme and apocalyptic doesn't tell us anything about correctness. Yes, there are tons of people saying nonsense, but look back at events. For a while it seemed as though AI was improving extremely quickly. People extrapolated from that. I wouldn't ca…

If a person in 1900 wrote a novel about landing on the moon, they would be a sci-fi author. If they discussed what a future moon landing might be like or how it could work, they would be a futurist. If they were raising funds for a moon landing that they are currently working on, and success is surely imminent, despite not having any evidence that they can achieve it, or that they have beaten the technical hurdles ne…

The reason for bringing up that idea is clarified by the sentence right after. What is the point of ignoring everything past the first sentence?
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