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The Mack Super Pumper was a locomotive engined fire fighter (2018)

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Re: The Mack Super Pumper was a locomotive engined fire fighter (2018)

#51
post #47

> During a fire in the Bronx, firemen laid 7,000ft of hose to get to a suitable water supply and the truck pumped as though it was dipping its feet into the ocean. "7000 ft" sounds wrong to me. That's over a mile of hose. Feels like that's unnecessarily long. I'd love to learn more about this. Anyone know when or what fire this was?

The article mentions that the main pumping unit could draw water from 8 hydrants at once. So 7000 ft of total hose to get to 8 hydrants sounds like it makes sense.

I wonder if maybe it can't even use hydrants that are too near each other in the plumbing graph.

Re: The Mack Super Pumper was a locomotive engined fire fighter (2018)

#52

And while we're talking about highly specialized firefighting apparatus... while I don't think Chicago FD ever ran anything quite like the FDNY Mack Super Pumper, they are well known for their use of a piece of apparatus known as a "turret wagon". Basically, it's a big-ass truck with a huge deluge gun (aka "monitor" or "turret") mounted on the back, and with a big intake manifold for receiving multiple supply lines.…

Wow. Those things could Dip Toontown off the face of the earth.

Re: The Mack Super Pumper was a locomotive engined fire fighter (2018)

#53
SysAdmin related: I was once talking to a fire chief and I asked about how much water the fire engines carried. He said that they carry about enough to put out the typical house fire. The first engine on scene immediately jumps to fighting the fire. The second engine on scene hooks the first engine up to the water supply before going on to fight the fire.

I've often thought about that when there's a work crisis: If I'm the second on the scene, what can I do to support those fighting the fire right now, before jumping in.

Re: The Mack Super Pumper was a locomotive engined fire fighter (2018)

#54
>and flow over 10,000 gallons per minute at low pressures if the situation called for it. When the pressure was ramped up to to 350psi, it could move 8,800 GPM.

That sounds counterintuitive . What about higher pressure will slow water down?

The price of the system was huge. It's a theme that as we move to better and more efficient systems they become more boring. Most of the magic of driving is lost in electric vehicles, biplanes, and the propellor planes of ww2 capture the imagination in a way jets don't. The monstrously complicated cabins of old 747s are fascinating in a way that modern far more capable planes are not. Back then you had 2 pilots and a guy whose main job was stopping the plane from falling out of the sky! Now it's a bunch of very clever computers under the cockpit that does all of that. It's worth noting that steam engine which was the driving element in the Industrial Revolution and maybe the most important invention in history was originally developed to pump water from mines. Some of these distant ancestors of modern engines are on display in London. James Watt might have predicted a pump like this, but he probably never guessed it would be pulled by anything but a team of horses!

Compare that to Sam Altmans wild prediction that agi will capture "the light cone of all future profits in the entire universe", maybe true, but it will never be as interesting as a steam engine, where the collective ingenuity of a century of engineers and metallugrists is on display in all it's glory.

Re: The Mack Super Pumper was a locomotive engined fire fighter (2018)

#55
post #3

That "deltic" engine just for the water pumping is incredible, I'd never seen that cylinder layout before. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napier_Deltic

Piston engines got pretty wild before turbines eventually took over the world. The most efficient ones were more efficient than today's turbines in terms of BSFC[0]. One of the most interesting to me was the Napier Nomad[1], which used turbo- and super-charging. However, the turbo had secondary fuel injection and effectively ran as a turbine to drive the compressor. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake-specific_fu…

Those exhaust driven turbines didn't just drive the compressor like is typical with turbochargers, but was also mechanically linked to the crank shaft so the turbine contributed to the overall power output of the engine directly, not just by forcing more air into the cylinders. That's what made them "turbo-compound."

The youtube channel "Greg's Airplanes and Automobiles" has a nice video about turbo compound engines.

Re: The Mack Super Pumper was a locomotive engined fire fighter (2018)

#57

SysAdmin related: I was once talking to a fire chief and I asked about how much water the fire engines carried. He said that they carry about enough to put out the typical house fire. The first engine on scene immediately jumps to fighting the fire. The second engine on scene hooks the first engine up to the water supply before going on to fight the fire. I've often thought about that when there's a work crisis: If I…

Our engine holds 1200 gallons. It goes in first* and starts putting the wet stuff on the red stuff.

As the engine drives in it drops a 3" hose along its path. Next is our big tender with 3000 gallons. It stops at the street and connects to the dropped hose to pump more water up to the engine.

The tender also has a drop tank -- think about a portable kids' wading pool but much larger and deeper. Shuttle tenders refill the drop tank while our big tender draws from it to continue supplying the engine.

We don't have fire hydrants, so this is the dance we have to do.

* It's very important to park the engine close to the fire but not too close. Ask me how I learned this.

Re: The Mack Super Pumper was a locomotive engined fire fighter (2018)

#58

SysAdmin related: I was once talking to a fire chief and I asked about how much water the fire engines carried. He said that they carry about enough to put out the typical house fire. The first engine on scene immediately jumps to fighting the fire. The second engine on scene hooks the first engine up to the water supply before going on to fight the fire. I've often thought about that when there's a work crisis: If I…

Our engine holds 1200 gallons. It goes in first* and starts putting the wet stuff on the red stuff. As the engine drives in it drops a 3" hose along its path. Next is our big tender with 3000 gallons. It stops at the street and connects to the dropped hose to pump more water up to the engine. The tender also has a drop tank -- think about a portable kids' wading pool but much larger and deeper. Shuttle tenders refill…

H-h-how did you learn this?

Re: The Mack Super Pumper was a locomotive engined fire fighter (2018)

#59
post #3

That "deltic" engine just for the water pumping is incredible, I'd never seen that cylinder layout before. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napier_Deltic

Piston engines got pretty wild before turbines eventually took over the world. The most efficient ones were more efficient than today's turbines in terms of BSFC[0]. One of the most interesting to me was the Napier Nomad[1], which used turbo- and super-charging. However, the turbo had secondary fuel injection and effectively ran as a turbine to drive the compressor. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake-specific_fu…

Speaking of turbines and fire apparatus, back in the 60's a few jet turbine powered engines and one ladder truck were made: https://www.aeroflap.com.br/en/when-fire-trucks-used-boeing-...

Re: The Mack Super Pumper was a locomotive engined fire fighter (2018)

#60
post #47

> During a fire in the Bronx, firemen laid 7,000ft of hose to get to a suitable water supply and the truck pumped as though it was dipping its feet into the ocean. "7000 ft" sounds wrong to me. That's over a mile of hose. Feels like that's unnecessarily long. I'd love to learn more about this. Anyone know when or what fire this was?

If they were all in a single line it probably wouldn't have worked -- series hydrodynamic hose impedance adds just like series resistance in a circuit and the pressure at the end would have been too low to be useful. But if it was 7000 feet arranged in several shorter parallel lines it's possible.
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